Broke new ground sharpening serrations...if you're a SE fan, you need to read this

[nirvanero]

DMT has a good video of how to sharpen chisels. Of course they use their products but the "lesson" is good. I had an old set that I couldn't get sharp enough so I was thinking of getting a new set. After watching the video I was able to get mine back to razor sharp. Not only could I sharpen chisels now but I didn't need to buy new ones. The thing about the stropping is they didn't use a leather strop. They recommend a hard wood or MDF to apply their 6, 3 or 1 micron diamond paste on. Leather is too soft because of the way you hold a chisel. To sharpen the bevel side you put your index finger on top of the flat side and hold the bevel side flat against your stone or material you have the paste on. They even recommend using glass for the paste.

Anyway if you follow their instructions I think you'll get great results. Also, on widgetsupply.com they have a couple of angle holders for chisels. They hold the chisel at the same angle as you slide the bevel side on the sharpening material. I don't have one but they look good. I just don't need to sharpen them often enough and can get good results without them.

All this really helped me.

Jack

I think I know those videos but I'll take a look again, thanks Jack

[Kev83]

I've never even bothered checking out a SE knife for the sharpening reasons, but with this knowledge I may just give it a try!

[Evil D]

Well, turns out my camcorder is 100% full (and it's a 30gb hard drive lol) so pics will have to do for now.





Hopefully you can see the serrations still aren't fully polished, but I would say a good bit of the toothiness has been buffed off of the final edge. I ran across the perfect job for a serrated knife at work today. I had to cut some heavy plastic netting stuff, not quite as thick as a zip tie but it took a good amount of force to cut. The teeth definitely made the job easier.



Also I just made 100 consecutive ~10 inch cuts through C flute cardboard (if you've ever wondered, there is a size variation that corrugated fiberboard (cardboard) is manufactured by, which varies by intended use, which you can see here). Needless to say, the edge will no longer push cut phone book paper and struggles to slice it cleanly, but I'm not sure if this proves anything since I would expect a plain edge S30V knife to react the same after 100 cuts through cardboard too. It's by no means dull and will still slice printer paper, but it's nowhere near as sharp as it was and the cutting effort from start to finish was noticeably greater towards the end, resulting in my biggest complaint about serrations...they start binding up when the knife gets dull, especially in corrugated because it starts to push and rip those inner flutes instead of cutting them.

So...take this for what you will. I don't know if I'd say the buffing was the sole reason that the edge will no longer slice as easily, since like I said I have yet to use a steel that will still push cut phone book paper after 100 cuts through corrugated, but if nothing else this is at least a viable option for sharpening serrations if you suck at it or lack the tools like I do. The best part of this whole experiment is I've fallen in love with my first Spydie all over again and I think I'll be carrying it as a backup blade for a while, most likely backup to the upcoming forum Native 5 :D






Oh, and in other news....who out there would LOVE to see that same bidirectional texture machined into some G10!? That would make my day! I really love that pattern and the Spyderco logo and knife name in the center of the handle. I think because this was my first Spyderco knife, I relate the brand to this image and I really wish it could be machined into G10. I would absolutely love to have that pattern and the logo on a Para 2/Manix 2.

[Scottie3000]

I was just thinking, paper wheels that a lot of pro sharpeners use are just power stropping too if you think about it.

[Blerv]

I know it doesn't work for all cutting tasks but do you ever try to cut corrugate with serrated knives but tilting the blade at about a 45 or 30 degree angle and pulling straight back scoring with a scallop? I know I simply didn't get serrated knives and tried that by someone's request and it sliced w/o much effort at all.

[Scottie3000]

I know it doesn't work for all cutting tasks but do you ever try to cut corrugate with serrated knives but tilting the blade at about a 45 or 30 degree angle and pulling straight back scoring with a scallop? I know I simply didn't get serrated knives and tried that by someone's request and it sliced w/o much effort at all.

I've found that to be the best technique as well. It works very well with single layer corrugated cardboard, I haven't tried it with double layer (two sets of corrugations) yet.

[Evil D]

I've been meaning to make a thread/video about how to cut corrugated. You ALWAYS cut at an angle, regardless of blade type. It allows the material to spread apart and makes it so much easier to cut without wedging the blade.

[Ranger908]

I've been lurking on this thread for about 6 months and joined yesterday. I am impressed by the nature of the information available and the expertise of the members. Just reading is usually enough for me but I found this thread interesting and thought I may have something to add.

I bought my Mariner in the late 70's and wore it everyday at work for about 20 years. Most days were on or below the water. From the day I bought it I abused it beyond belief, but it held up. I used every stone, file, rod, sharpening system I could find to try by best to keep it sharp. None really worked good, but the knife continued to be a better tool for every job at hand than any straight blade. It never failed to perform. It cut a lots of things that a pair of dikes would have done a better job on and may have saved a couple of lives. When I retired about 10 years ago I threw it in the drawer and forgot about it.

Getting into kayak fishing a couple of years ago I started searching for a good knife. I ended up with a Bird Robin, Bird Dragonfly, Atlantic Salt, and a Manix 2 in a matter of months, (I may have developed and addiction). To get to the point for 25 years I have also done a bit of waterfowl carving. I dug out the old Mariner and started in on it with my high speed handpiece that I use for carving, with a very small white stone I was able to get a very sharp edge. I had to go slow to get out years worth of abuse, but it worked. I hit the backside with my small cloth wheel and had a excellent sharp blade.

As for stropping I have never stropped and pocket knife. I have however stropped my carving knives. To put it exactly, that is just about all the sharpening I do to these knives. If I ever hit them with a stone it would be once a year at most. I would strop these knives about every five minutes with two different grid strops. From this experience I can tell you that you can roll a edge on a blade very easily without knowing it. You can go from very sharp, to unusable with about three wrong hits on a leather strop. Just like anything else if you a good at it, go for it. I'm just not sure you want a edge that needs to be stropped ever 5 minutes to keep it sharp.

[jackknifeh]

I've been lurking on this thread for about 6 months and joined yesterday. I am impressed by the nature of the information available and the expertise of the members. Just reading is usually enough for me but I found this thread interesting and thought I may have something to add.

I bought my Mariner in the late 70's and wore it everyday at work for about 20 years. Most days were on or below the water. From the day I bought it I abused it beyond belief, but it held up. I used every stone, file, rod, sharpening system I could find to try by best to keep it sharp. None really worked good, but the knife continued to be a better tool for every job at hand than any straight blade. It never failed to perform. It cut a lots of things that a pair of dikes would have done a better job on and may have saved a couple of lives. When I retired about 10 years ago I threw it in the drawer and forgot about it.

Getting into kayak fishing a couple of years ago I started searching for a good knife. I ended up with a Bird Robin, Bird Dragonfly, Atlantic Salt, and a Manix 2 in a matter of months, (I may have developed and addiction). To get to the point for 25 years I have also done a bit of waterfowl carving. I dug out the old Mariner and started in on it with my high speed handpiece that I use for carving, with a very small white stone I was able to get a very sharp edge. I had to go slow to get out years worth of abuse, but it worked. I hit the backside with my small cloth wheel and had a excellent sharp blade.

As for stropping I have never stropped and pocket knife. I have however stropped my carving knives. To put it exactly, that is just about all the sharpening I do to these knives. If I ever hit them with a stone it would be once a year at most. I would strop these knives about every five minutes with two different grid strops. From this experience I can tell you that you can roll a edge on a blade very easily without knowing it. You can go from very sharp, to unusable with about three wrong hits on a leather strop. Just like anything else if you a good at it, go for it. I'm just not sure you want a edge that needs to be stropped ever 5 minutes to keep it sharp.

Welcome to the forum. It's good to hear about knives getting used for years with good performance. All my working life I always used cheaper knives that would either break or get worn to the point I would just replace it especially due to the low price.

I doubt if anyone here would actually spend more than 5 minutes stropping one knife. I may be wrong but IMO the knife should be really sharp before stropping is even considered. After 5 minutes the edge has been changed as much as it will be with any strop I think. A strop removes a very small amount of steel therefore it's only good if the knife is already sharp. Then it will just add that little extra sharpness. Truthfully, almost any knife is already sharp enough to be usable when it is time to strop. A couple of stones is all I had most of my life and I could always shave hair off my arm when I was finished sharpening. Wasn't until I got more into the "fun" aspect of knives that I have wanted my knives sharper. Now I can get them SO MUCH SHARPER then I really need them to be but it's fun. Does make cutting easier too. :)

Jack

[Evil D]

I've been lurking on this thread for about 6 months and joined yesterday. I am impressed by the nature of the information available and the expertise of the members. Just reading is usually enough for me but I found this thread interesting and thought I may have something to add.

I bought my Mariner in the late 70's and wore it everyday at work for about 20 years. Most days were on or below the water. From the day I bought it I abused it beyond belief, but it held up. I used every stone, file, rod, sharpening system I could find to try by best to keep it sharp. None really worked good, but the knife continued to be a better tool for every job at hand than any straight blade. It never failed to perform. It cut a lots of things that a pair of dikes would have done a better job on and may have saved a couple of lives. When I retired about 10 years ago I threw it in the drawer and forgot about it.

Getting into kayak fishing a couple of years ago I started searching for a good knife. I ended up with a Bird Robin, Bird Dragonfly, Atlantic Salt, and a Manix 2 in a matter of months, (I may have developed and addiction). To get to the point for 25 years I have also done a bit of waterfowl carving. I dug out the old Mariner and started in on it with my high speed handpiece that I use for carving, with a very small white stone I was able to get a very sharp edge. I had to go slow to get out years worth of abuse, but it worked. I hit the backside with my small cloth wheel and had a excellent sharp blade.

As for stropping I have never stropped and pocket knife. I have however stropped my carving knives. To put it exactly, that is just about all the sharpening I do to these knives. If I ever hit them with a stone it would be once a year at most. I would strop these knives about every five minutes with two different grid strops. From this experience I can tell you that you can roll a edge on a blade very easily without knowing it. You can go from very sharp, to unusable with about three wrong hits on a leather strop. Just like anything else if you a good at it, go for it. I'm just not sure you want a edge that needs to be stropped ever 5 minutes to keep it sharp.

This is essentially the same scenario that barbers are faced with. They can get away with using nothing more than a strop to maintain their edge, but then they also have a very specialized cutting edge that only cuts one thing, and so the potential for chipped and rolled edges just isn't as big of a deal. If you chip and roll your edge while shaving someone's face, then that person should just grow a beard lol.

[BAL]

Welcome Ranger908, glad to have you aboard.

[Scottie3000]

I received a 701 fine profile stone today and I agree that it's a necessity for serrated edge care (someone said that right?). I cut up a whole load of cardboard this weekend and needed a touch up so the timing was perfect. I used the profile and then tried Evil D's Dremel strop. It worked great and I can shave or push cut just about anything right now. I'll have to see how it holds up.

[xceptnl]

The 701s are the ultimate tool (IMO) for serrated sharpening and I keep mine in my EDC bag daily. They will maintain an edge on most anything while away from my home sharpening system. I have been so happy on many vacations when I remembered bringing them. The edges found on vacation cutlery is most often substandard to say the least.

[Evil D]

The 701s are the ultimate tool (IMO) for serrated sharpening and I keep mine in my EDC bag daily. They will maintain an edge on most anything while away from my home sharpening system. I have been so happy on many vacations when I remembered bringing them. The edges found on vacation cutlery is most often substandard to say the least.

I've never used them....can you maybe post a pic of how well each rod fits into the different sized serrations?

[xceptnl]

David,

I can certainly try again tomorrow. My camera and tripod are at work and trying to do that shot with just my phone and bad lighting is not working well. I can tell you I have used them exclusively to sharpen my Tasman PE as well as my Rescues SE.

[Joshua J.]

Every time the subject comes up I'm reminded of the videos in this thread

http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... on-Youtube

You do most of your grinding flat with the blade on the side opposite the scallops, basically until you've raised a burr along the entire edge (I use an 11x3" oxide stone, in the video they use a belt sander). Note that this also maintains the scallop shape, it just makes them a little thinner. Remove the burr with a sharpmaker rod, and sometimes I like to strop the inside of the scallops on the corner of a 2x4.
With a set of Spyderco benchstones it isn't difficult to sharpen up to a high polish after the initial burr is reached.
It's pretty simple and brought my knives back to factory sharpness.

[Evil D]

So, just to revisit this thread, the whole thing didn't exactly pull my SE knives back into regular rotation (hey, old habits die hard, and lately I've been playing around with low grit edges a lot) but I did pull out my SE Stretch recently to give it some use. In the end, I still greatly prefer PE especially when it comes to cutting cardboard, despite the fact that most people prefer SE for cardboard. My reasoning is that when you're cutting against the flutes in corrugated, I find that the points tend to snag into the flutes and cause binding/snagging which bugs the crap out of me. It has nothing to do with how sharp the knife or points are, it's just the nature of those teeth making their way through the material. Other than that, I also got my hands on a used SE Tasman Salt that I REALLY liked, but I lost it in the ocean on a vacation to Florida back in August. I'll most likely get another one of those, because IMO if you're going to have serrations, you may as well go full blast and have them in a hawk bill since pull cuts are where SE really shine.

[glbpro]

In the end, I still greatly prefer PE especially when it comes to cutting cardboard, despite the fact that most people prefer SE for cardboard. My reasoning is that when you're cutting against the flutes in corrugated, I find that the points tend to snag into the flutes and cause binding/snagging which bugs the crap out of me.

I'm with you on that one - I can't stand how serrations tend to rip and tear the material they are cutting through. Perhaps one day I will follow your advice and get a serrated hawkbill. Tasman Salt, methinks :D

[JD Spydo]

Stropping is not it appears to be....
Almost like buffing an edge with a power buffer and buffing soap...burns the edge quicker than you realise...
it will be sharp, but not durable as a non-buffed edge, as the edge breaks away quicker than it should...

I agree with Stuart because anytime you use any power driven device on steel you run the risk of ruining the blade by distempering it. Now if you're extremely carefull and have a container of coolant to constantly dip it in you might get away with it.

There are so many fine grit abrasive tools out there that do a great job already. But Evil I do like the fact that you are exploring new ways to do it because sharpening serrations is something I'm trying to get better at myself.

I've had decent luck with leather boot laces impregnated with abrasive compounds. It is very time consuming but anything to do with sharpening serrations usually is anyway. But do keep in mind that serrated edges tend to keep an edge much longer anyway.

[Evil D]

I'm really not worried about hurting the temper, the blade gets hotter when you make a few long fast cuts through cardboard than it does from the stropping. Besides, most of the SE knives I've done this with were H1, were the heat treat isn't an issue. Suffice to say, more heat gets into these blades when the serrations are cut in the first place than when I run a Dremel over them, and you don't hear people being concerned about losing temper from Spyderco sharpening them do ya?