SM-35M50 Micromelt Steel looks amazing!

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Srg. Trollski
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SM-35M50 Micromelt Steel looks amazing!

Postby Srg. Trollski » Tue May 14, 2013 8:20 pm

Has anyone heard of this steel before? It looks incredible! 3.45% carbon, 8% tungsten, 11.5% vanadium, 5% cobalt, 19% chromium, plus smaller amounts of other alloys. Is said to have the wear resistance of CPM 15V at 65 HRC, and the toughness and compressive strength of INFI. Also is said to have the rust resistance of CPM D2. Are there any downsides to this steel? It doesn't seem to have a tradeoff. Is spyderco willing to use this stuff on future knives?

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Clip
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Postby Clip » Tue May 14, 2013 9:21 pm

Can't find anything about it online, can you link the page you got the specs from?
Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, Cruwear MT12, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Squeak, Manix 83mm, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, VG10 Jester, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

Chris

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razorsharp
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Postby razorsharp » Wed May 15, 2013 1:01 am

sounds like CPM Unobtanium V

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Clip
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Postby Clip » Wed May 15, 2013 4:57 am

razorsharp wrote:sounds like CPM Unobtanium V
Now THAT is a bear to grind. It wore down my grinding wheel, then my bench grinder. Then the bench fell apart.
Click here to zoom: Under the Microscope

Manix2, Elmax MT13, M4 Manix2, ZDP Caly Jr, SB Caly3.5, Cruwear MT12, XHP MT16, South Fork, SB Caly3, 20CP Para2, Military Left Hand, Perrin PPT, Squeak, Manix 83mm, Swick3, Lil' Temperance, VG10 Jester, Dfly2 Salt, Tasman Salt

Chris

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nirvanero
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Postby nirvanero » Wed May 15, 2013 4:59 am

Srg. Trollski?

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The Mastiff
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Postby The Mastiff » Wed May 15, 2013 5:20 am

Srg. Trollski?
Heh!

I'll forge some up on my Bic lighter powered forge. By carefully shaping the airstream entering I am able to get over 2700 degrees F with near supersonic speed air powered by my ex wifes hair dryer. I can carefully control grain growth and can keep the size down to only.177 inch ( standard BB size).

My first batch just blew away though as somebody forgot to sinter all those expensive elements into a workable ingot. I'll get it right next time. ;)
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800


"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"

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Postby PMBohol » Wed May 15, 2013 5:20 am

Yep, I think someone might be playing with us here.

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Postby mattman » Wed May 15, 2013 5:35 am

PMBohol wrote:Yep, I think someone might be playing with us here.
Third time's the charm?

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nirvanero
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Postby nirvanero » Wed May 15, 2013 5:46 am

The Mastiff wrote:Heh!

I'll forge some up on my Bic lighter powered forge. By carefully shaping the airstream entering I am able to get over 2700 degrees F with near supersonic speed air powered by my ex wifes hair dryer. I can carefully control grain growth and can keep the size down to only.177 inch ( standard BB size).

My first batch just blew away though as somebody forgot to sinter all those expensive elements into a workable ingot. I'll get it right next time. ;)
So all those rumours about SM-35M50 were true... :)

Srg. Trollski
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Postby Srg. Trollski » Wed May 15, 2013 7:07 am

Actually I'm not playing with anyone, its an alloy developed by micromax industries with permission from carpenter steel. It was originally developed for use on the moon rover for blades, but it never went into production. It uses a two stage micromelt process, with the cobalt injected into the steel matrix in its annealed state. They have to re melt it down go do this, very complex

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phillipsted
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Postby phillipsted » Wed May 15, 2013 7:15 am

It sounds very complex...and very expensive...

TedP

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Buck Knives I Like
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Postby Buck Knives I Like » Wed May 15, 2013 7:48 am

Srg. Trollski wrote:Has anyone heard of this steel before? It looks incredible! 3.45% carbon, 8% tungsten, 11.5% vanadium, 5% cobalt, 19% chromium, plus smaller amounts of other alloys. Is said to have the wear resistance of CPM 15V at 65 HRC, and the toughness and compressive strength of INFI. Also is said to have the rust resistance of CPM D2. Are there any downsides to this steel? It doesn't seem to have a tradeoff. Is spyderco willing to use this stuff on future knives?
Srg. Trollski wrote:Actually I'm not playing with anyone, its an alloy developed by micromax industries with permission from carpenter steel. It was originally developed for use on the moon rover for blades, but it never went into production. It uses a two stage micromelt process, with the cobalt injected into the steel matrix in its annealed state. They have to re melt it down go do this, very complex

Rofl.

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The Mastiff
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Postby The Mastiff » Wed May 15, 2013 7:59 am

Actually I'm not playing with anyone, its an alloy developed by micromax industries with permission from carpenter steel

Which Micromax?

The protective clothing company in Lakeland? http://www.lakeland.com/lmicromaxNS.shtml

Or the mobile phone company in Mumbai ( formerly Bombay)http://www.micromaxindia.com/

Carpenter/Latrobe has no information on the product.

Actually making the steel sounds plausible. There are some very highly alloyed steels out there. Giving the steel the properties you quoted:
3.45% carbon, 8% tungsten, 11.5% vanadium, 5% cobalt, 19% chromium, plus smaller amounts of other alloys. Is said to have the wear resistance of CPM 15V at 65 HRC, and the toughness and compressive strength of INFI. Also is said to have the rust resistance of CPM D2. Are there any downsides to this steel? It doesn't seem to have a tradeoff. Is spyderco willing to use this stuff on future knives?
sounds pretty much impossible. This high a carbide fraction having the wear resistance of 15V is possible, but not having the strength and toughness of Infi, a .50 Carbon low alloy steel is virtually impossible. The whole concept goes against what is known of metallurgy. It doesn't make sense at all.

Do you recall where you heard of this Sgt. Trollski? I'm very curious.

Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800


"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"

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Buck Knives I Like
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Postby Buck Knives I Like » Wed May 15, 2013 8:23 am

The Mastiff wrote:Do you recall where you heard of this Sgt. Trollski? I'm very curious
-_-

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Buck Knives I Like
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Postby Buck Knives I Like » Wed May 15, 2013 8:30 am

You have all stopped me but apparently my shriek for backup has been heard. ( Similar to the call a werewolf makes before its about to die. )

BAL
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Postby BAL » Wed May 15, 2013 11:25 am

Mr. McBeevee.

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Postby GoodEyeSniper » Wed May 15, 2013 12:06 pm

this is the PM version of Rosta Frei steel, correct?

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Postby Cliff Stamp » Wed May 15, 2013 12:08 pm

Srg. Trollski wrote:Has anyone heard of this steel before? It looks incredible! 3.45% carbon, 8% tungsten, 11.5% vanadium, 5% cobalt, 19% chromium, plus smaller amounts of other alloys. Is said to have the wear resistance of CPM 15V at 65 HRC, and the toughness and compressive strength of INFI. Also is said to have the rust resistance of CPM D2. Are there any downsides to this steel? It doesn't seem to have a tradeoff. Is spyderco willing to use this stuff on future knives?
I applaude your effort for using a lot of words, but this steel has a pretty poor performance combination :

-it has 70% more carbon that maxamet, yet the obtainable hardness is 59/60 (that is the compression strength of INFI)
-it has 19% chromium, but is only able to achieve the corrosion resistance of D2 (that isn't effected by PM, so it has about 5-7% free chromium)
-it has a much higher carbide volume than 15V, but just matches its wear resistance

Does it also have :

-the toughness of solid sintered pure ceramic
-the grindability of nanotwinned cubic boron nitride
-the hardenability of white paper steel
-the ease of sharpening of as-cast 121 REX
-the ductility of annealed S125V

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Postby razorsharp » Wed May 15, 2013 12:13 pm

GoodEyeSniper wrote:this is the PM version of Rosta Frei steel, correct?
Da best steel mon

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Postby Scottie3000 » Wed May 15, 2013 1:31 pm

Cliff Stamp wrote:I applaude your effort for using a lot of words, but this steel has a pretty poor performance combination :

-it has 70% more carbon that maxamet, yet the obtainable hardness is 59/60 (that is the compression strength of INFI)
-it has 19% chromium, but is only able to achieve the corrosion resistance of D2 (that isn't effected by PM, so it has about 5-7% free chromium)
-it has a much higher carbide volume than 15V, but just matches its wear resistance

Does it also have :

-the toughness of solid sintered pure ceramic
-the grindability of nanotwinned cubic boron nitride
-the hardenability of white paper steel
-the ease of sharpening of as-cast 121 REX
-the ductility of annealed S125V
Thanks for some expertise Cliff!

Edit: I think this thread is about a month and a half late.
On order: Maxamet Native 5
Current pocket hog: S90V Para2
Next up: Something Blurple


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