Sharpmaker best value?

[Scorpion]

Is the sharpmaker with diamond rods good for re-profiling? The hardest steel would be VG-10. I want to be sure that I could get "perfect" symetrical even bevels with this system. I have basically no experience sharpening. I was wondering if I should use the DMT diasharp Magna-guide for reprofiling. If so, should I try and obtain the whole range of DMT stones or get the sharpmaker for the finer grits? Is it ok to use two systems? What is the best combination of the two in that case? Coarse, extra coarse, or both on the DMT and sharpmaker with med, fine, and ultrafine? I have a max of $200 to spend on this stuff. If you are going to say edge pro, please find out where I can get it shipped to canada for under $200.

[eloreno]

You should be able to get your knives quite sharp with the sharpmaker, but you'll not get perfect symmetrical bevels in my experience. I've not tried the DMT magna-glide. I believe the only way to get perfect symmetrical even bevels would be with a guided system like wicked edge or edge pro apex. JMO

[noseoil]

DMT, Gatco, Lansky are all similar in function and will give you a true edge bevel. Sharpmaker works very well to maintain edges. Diamonds cut quickly on harder steels, finish with an ultra-fine stone & polishing pastes for a finish. Buy the BEST system you can and avoid the trouble of spending twice later. Depends on your intent, changing or keeping?

[kbuzbee]

DMT, Gatco, Lansky are all similar in function and will give you a true edge bevel.

Similar in concept but, IMO, much less precise than EP or WEPS (but certainly also less expensive )

Scorpion, yes, you can reprofile with a SM, with or without diamonds. But it will be slow and difficult to keep the angle as precise as you'd like.

Ken

[Scorpion]

Similar in concept but, IMO, much less precise than EP or WEPS (but certainly also less expensive )

Scorpion, yes, you can reprofile with a SM, with or without diamonds. But it will be slow and difficult to keep the angle as precise as you'd like.

Ken

What in your opinion is the best system to re-profile the bevels on small (sub 3 inch, maybe 2 inch) blades? I heard that the edge pro is better suited to larger blades.

[Invective]

What in your opinion is the best system to re-profile the bevels on small (sub 3 inch, maybe 2 inch) blades? I heard that the edge pro is better suited to larger blades.

I've reprofiled my Jester pretty easily on the sharpmaker. Took me around an hour or so to reset the bevel and then another 30 or so to polish but this was while watching tv and getting distracted. Probably would have taken half the time if I was actually paying attention. I used the diamond rods, which helped a lot, the brown ones just don't cut as well as diamonds. I will admit that it is hard for me to get the bevel just right on the heel of the blade, but it's nothing too bad.

[Scorpion]

What is the finest DMT grit that will rebevel (at least as easily as the sharpmaker's medium)? An what is the coarsest diamond stone that will give a razor edge? Leaving micro-serrations is great, but a hair shaving edge is necessary.

As well, has anyone used the DMT magna-guide on a ladybug/manbug/jester size knife? How well does it work?

[kbuzbee]

What in your opinion is the best system to re-profile the bevels on small (sub 3 inch, maybe 2 inch) blades? I heard that the edge pro is better suited to larger blades.

Personally, I like the WEPS better but they are both good systems. On an EP you might want blocks like Jack is showing on the thread. For WEPS, the issue isn't blade length but width (spine to edge) really narrow blades 1/4"-1/2" can be challenging, but there are workarounds. Spydies are plenty wide, due to the hole.

As for grit, I'd start between 100-400 (both more coarse than Spyderco diamonds) and take it to at least 600. Personally I go much finer than that.

Awesome job Invective! Really, really well done!

See! SM WILL do it.

Ken

[Scorpion]

Does the magna guide attach properly to ffg blades?

[kbuzbee]

Does the magna guide attach properly to ffg blades?

No personal experience but it should. You may need to use some chamois to firm it up. That's common with the WEPS clamp too.

Ken

[Scorpion]

No personal experience but it should. You may need to use some chamois to firm it up. That's common with the WEPS clamp too.

Ken

Thanks. Do you have any idea whether or not the microbevel can be maintained with a clamp on system (magna guide in this case)? Or is it impossible to get close enough twice? Since a micro is so insignificant in size, would putting a new one that is approximately the same each sharpening matter?

[jackknifeh]

If you have a limit of $200 and want to get something pretty soon (sooner than you can have an extra $100 or so) I think your best way to go is the Edge Pro Apex basic setup. To check further on EP possibilities I would contact Ben Dale at edgeproinc.com and explain your situation, being in Canada and discuss shipping cost with him. He is the EP inventor of the EP and can get you everything you need in a startup set. Can't speak for him but he may sell you what you can afford now even if everything doesn't fit into one of the "sets". He is very good to do business with. The other place I'd check on EP possibilities is chefknivestogo.com. They have a few additional items that help a lot with the EP but they are not essential right away. By checking with Ben and CKTG I think you can get as good a deal as you will find as far as shipping and what you need to start off. You can always get one stone or more later. But, with just two stones you can get started and learn the system. More stones later can take care of the coarser and really fine grit needs. I think an EP 220 and 600 grit would be a good place to start. Two stones are usually what come with the "basic" setup I think. They are around $150 I think.

The other systems are good also though. Never used a WE but I know they are good and have many great features. I do believe they are a little more expensive than the EP stuff. The Sharpmaker is a great system but not the BEST system for rerofiling but I've never used one of those either. I've just read that others feel this way. You can reprofile or do a lot of steel removal with the diamond stones but it takes a while. I have used lots of DMT products. They have an aligner system that I used for about a year and it is good. But, when I got the money for the EP I stopped using the aligner.

On DMT stones the finest you can realistically stop with for a final edge is the fine grit. The extra fine is more like what I prefer but a fine grit stone will leave a VERY nice sharp edge. It will be toothier than a Spyderco fine grit stone. You can't reprofile with a DMT fine grit stone. You will need a coarse grit or actually you'd want to start with an extra coarse stone in the DMT line. I've never used the magna system but I think it uses a motor. Never used this system but as a rule I stay away from any sharpening system that has a motor. LOTS of people use those systems, especially belt sanders and they get great results I guess. Just never used them myself.

If you want complete control with no system specific drawbacks you would need to just get some good quality stones and learn to free hand sharpen. This is not rocket science but it does take considerable practice to become good. Getting a knife sharp is not a hard task but being able to create different type edges on any given knife requires more knowledge and practice than do the "systems". Their main benifit is controling the edge angle for you. I choose the systems because I don't want to take the time to perfect free hand skills. I work on them once in a while for fun but I'll stick with the EP for now.

Good luck with your decision.

Jack

PS
Meant to include this in the free hand paragraph but forgot. I believe Spyderco has about as good a deal in quality and price with their bench stones as you'll find. They are great sharpeners. I've used them from the med. thru ultra fine grit and I'd recommend them to anyone. For anything coarser than the med. you'll need to look to DMT or some really good quality water stones. Definately check out Spyderco's sharpening products. I am not saying that because this is a Spyderco forum. I believe it.

[kbuzbee]

In both cases, probably. Probably you can find an angle close enough to what you want. And probably you won't care because it's very slight. Still, I'd use a known, repeatable angle.

Ken

[kbuzbee]

The other systems are good also though. Never used a WE but I know they are good and have many great features. I do believe they are a little more expensive than the EP stuff.

The biggest cost difference is the stones, because with a WEPS you need two of each. Of course twice the stones last twice as long, all other things being equal.

There are other advantages we can discuss if you like?

I've never used the magna system but I think it uses a motor.

I don't think so... Maybe there's a different model?

http://www.amazon.com/DMT-DMGEF-Diafold ... B000PW2FQA

Ken

[Scorpion]

If you have a limit of $200 and want to get something pretty soon (sooner than you can have an extra $100 or so) I think your best way to go is the Edge Pro Apex basic setup. To check further on EP possibilities I would contact Ben Dale at edgeproinc.com and explain your situation, being in Canada and discuss shipping cost with him. He is the EP inventor of the EP and can get you everything you need in a startup set. Can't speak for him but he may sell you what you can afford now even if everything doesn't fit into one of the "sets". He is very good to do business with. The other place I'd check on EP possibilities is chefknivestogo.com. They have a few additional items that help a lot with the EP but they are not essential right away. By checking with Ben and CKTG I think you can get as good a deal as you will find as far as shipping and what you need to start off. You can always get one stone or more later. But, with just two stones you can get started and learn the system. More stones later can take care of the coarser and really fine grit needs. I think an EP 220 and 600 grit would be a good place to start. Two stones are usually what come with the "basic" setup I think. They are around $150 I think.

The other systems are good also though. Never used a WE but I know they are good and have many great features. I do believe they are a little more expensive than the EP stuff. The Sharpmaker is a great system but not the BEST system for rerofiling but I've never used one of those either. I've just read that others feel this way. You can reprofile or do a lot of steel removal with the diamond stones but it takes a while. I have used lots of DMT products. They have an aligner system that I used for about a year and it is good. But, when I got the money for the EP I stopped using the aligner.

On DMT stones the finest you can realistically stop with for a final edge is the fine grit. The extra fine is more like what I prefer but a fine grit stone will leave a VERY nice sharp edge. It will be toothier than a Spyderco fine grit stone. You can't reprofile with a DMT fine grit stone. You will need a coarse grit or actually you'd want to start with an extra coarse stone in the DMT line. I've never used the magna system but I think it uses a motor. Never used this system but as a rule I stay away from any sharpening system that has a motor. LOTS of people use those systems, especially belt sanders and they get great results I guess. Just never used them myself.

If you want complete control with no system specific drawbacks you would need to just get some good quality stones and learn to free hand sharpen. This is not rocket science but it does take considerable practice to become good. Getting a knife sharp is not a hard task but being able to create different type edges on any given knife requires more knowledge and practice than do the "systems". Their main benifit is controling the edge angle for you. I choose the systems because I don't want to take the time to perfect free hand skills. I work on them once in a while for fun but I'll stick with the EP for now.

Good luck with your decision.

Jack

PS
Meant to include this in the free hand paragraph but forgot. I believe Spyderco has about as good a deal in quality and price with their bench stones as you'll find. They are great sharpeners. I've used them from the med. thru ultra fine grit and I'd recommend them to anyone. For anything coarser than the med. you'll need to look to DMT or some really good quality water stones. Definately check out Spyderco's sharpening products. I am not saying that because this is a Spyderco forum. I believe it.

The magna guide is basically the aligner with a magnet on the end of the rod that attaches to dmt stones instead of the aligner thing. It is not motorized. I am thinking that if I get it I will get xcoarse to xfine. I just hope I can do touchups with it (extra fine) without any variance in bevel issue.

Jacknife specifically: Do you think you could sharpen your manbugs on the aligner system?

[kbuzbee]

I am thinking that if I get it I will get xcoarse to xfine.

That should certainly get you started!

Jack's mentioned this before, but it bears repeating here. With diamonds, especially, use LOW pressure. It'll feel like you can go faster if you push harder but you'll wear out those diamond stones in short order.

I just hope I can do touchups with it (extra fine) without any variance in bevel issue.

Seems like your biggest issue will be getting it clamped exactly the same each time.

Let us know how it works out.

Ken

[Evil D]

Personally, here are my thoughts for the "under $100 sharpening system".

I would rather have a ~$50 Lansky if it were my only option. My reason is because of the uniform/factory/polished bevels you can achieve with them. They do come with a slew of issues and there's a rather broad learning curve you need to deal with, and they're not near as simple and fast/convenient to use as a Sharpmaker, but as far as reprofiling and maintaining a factory looking bevel, they're superior IMO.

Now, in a perfect world (at least as perfect as it can be if you can't afford or justify buying an Edge Pro) would be to have both the Lansky and a Sharpmaker. You'd use the Lansky to reprofile and maintain your bevels, and use the Sharpmaker for routine touch ups.

Actually, I probably wouldn't even go with a Lansky, I'd probably go with a Gatco if I had to do it all over again, as they have more angle options and thicker guide rods and seem more sturdy. I'm not sure how the price compares to a Lansky though.

Anyone with questions on Lansky's, don't hesitate to ask. I feel confident that I've rang out every last bit of sharpening potential from that product and am something of an authority on them, and that's saying something because I'm typically pretty modest about things but I really feel that I've mastered the Lansky lol.

[JudasD]

I really like the DMT stones, but their clamp is not very good. I use a Lansky clamp with the DMT stones. I have since purchased a WE and i do like the system. I find that most of the time i am using the sharpmaker. It is so quick to setup and just put a quick edge on something that it sees the most use.

JD

[Scorpion]

Personally, here are my thoughts for the "under $100 sharpening system".

I would rather have a ~$50 Lansky if it were my only option. My reason is because of the uniform/factory/polished bevels you can achieve with them. They do come with a slew of issues and there's a rather broad learning curve you need to deal with, and they're not near as simple and fast/convenient to use as a Sharpmaker, but as far as reprofiling and maintaining a factory looking bevel, they're superior IMO.

Now, in a perfect world (at least as perfect as it can be if you can't afford or justify buying an Edge Pro) would be to have both the Lansky and a Sharpmaker. You'd use the Lansky to reprofile and maintain your bevels, and use the Sharpmaker for routine touch ups.

Actually, I probably wouldn't even go with a Lansky, I'd probably go with a Gatco if I had to do it all over again, as they have more angle options and thicker guide rods and seem more sturdy. I'm not sure how the price compares to a Lansky though.

Anyone with questions on Lansky's, don't hesitate to ask. I feel confident that I've rang out every last bit of sharpening potential from that product and am something of an authority on them, and that's saying something because I'm typically pretty modest about things but I really feel that I've mastered the Lansky lol.

Alright EvilD, I will ask some questions. What are the limitations on the small end of blade sizes and could you do touch ups on the Lansky if you had to, without screwing up the micro due to not positioning the clamp perfectly?

[jackknifeh]

The magna guide is basically the aligner with a magnet on the end of the rod that attaches to dmt stones instead of the aligner thing. It is not motorized. I am thinking that if I get it I will get xcoarse to xfine. I just hope I can do touchups with it (extra fine) without any variance in bevel issue.

Jacknife specifically: Do you think you could sharpen your manbugs on the aligner system?

That's right. I remember now. I believe DMT has a system with round disks that uses a motor (could be wrong) but that is the system I was thinking of. The Magna system is a faster, easier version of the Aligner now that you have reminded me.

I think the Manbug could be sharpened on the Aligner or magna system with no problem. One issue I remember having with the clamp systems is knowing where to put the clamp on the spine. If I remember correctly you need to put the side of the clamp toward the tip right where the belly of the blade starts. If you put the clamp in the middle of the blade like the directions say you will end up with a very wide bevel and lower angle at the tip. You will notice the bevel getting wider as the edge rounds the belly. This will vary from knife blade to knife blade depending on edge shape. This is exactly one of the issues you deal with with almost any "system". You've probably seen bevels that are the exact same width from edge heel to tip. This exact edge bevel takes some doing no matter how you sharpen. The most versitile method is free hand but also all that freedom is harder to get control of. More practice.