How strong is the Chris Reeve Integral Lock?

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yesyes
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How strong is the Chris Reeve Integral Lock?

Postby yesyes » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:26 am

Hey guys, I was wondering, how strong is that R.I.L.? This is my first experience with it. Will this thing literally last forever? I have read that on back locks, constant wrist-flipping opening or those inertia flips can destroy the back lock. Is this the case with the R.I.L.? I don't really open my knife those ways, I was just wondering. I do flip it open with some force when I open it with a thumb flip because it's so smooth. I was just wondering if it'll ruin anything or put premature wear on the lock like with back locks.

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Ankerson
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Postby Ankerson » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:35 am

All locks will wear out in time......

Under normal use it's more than strong enough and will last a life time.

Various things will speed up wear such as constant flicking and other abuse of the knives.

Bottom line is if a knife is a flip toy the lock will wear out faster than one that isn't...

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JNewell
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Postby JNewell » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:55 am

yesyes wrote:Hey guys, I was wondering, how strong is that R.I.L.? This is my first experience with it. Will this thing literally last forever? I have read that on back locks, constant wrist-flipping opening or those inertia flips can destroy the back lock. Is this the case with the R.I.L.? I don't really open my knife those ways, I was just wondering. I do flip it open with some force when I open it with a thumb flip because it's so smooth. I was just wondering if it'll ruin anything or put premature wear on the lock like with back locks.
Wrist-flicking will accelerate wear on ANY lock. With normal use the original version of this lock will last a long time. I have a user small regular that finally needed service after a dozen years due to lock wear. CRK serviced it for free. I would expect a Military with the RIL and the steel insert to last a very long time.

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:15 am

For most people a quality knife will last on-par or far longer than a quality new car. Of course a car can have its engine replaced but the knife is .5-1% of the cost.
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Postby Cliff Stamp » Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:58 pm

yesyes wrote:I was just wondering if it'll ruin anything
The effect of strong snap openings accelerates lock wear on liners and integrals. This is in fact so strong that a lot of makers/manufacturers build their locks so that when you buy them they barely engage, this is done intentionally to give the longest time in use before they have to be serviced. However, it is also another illustration of the use of the word "lock" on a knife which fails to meet even basic design specifications for a lock because any lock which is so made is extremely unstable and can fail by shearing at the lock face.

However there are ways to make the lock which deal with these issues and have a design where wear can not lead to failure. People mistakenly believe all kinds of nonsensical things about locks because of the ways they are often designed on knives and end up accepting behavior simply because it is common, however this is not necessary, knife locks can actually be designed to actually be locks, i.e., keep the blade from closing unless the lock is stressed to the point it breaks and that wear in use does not lead to premature release.

Here is an example of how to alter the geometry of an integral so it doesn't have the common problems of that type which are :

-premature release
-jamming

Kyley Harris : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2cZQv5cIqQ

Now Kyley is still working on the design, but you can see from this and other video's that he has addressed the two common problems and the only consequence is very minor play. He has come under some pretty severe criticism from users who consider his design to be a poor lock because of play while ironically they consider locks which fail but have no blade play to be superior designs. A curious viewpoint, but a common one.

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Postby yesyes » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:02 pm

So am I safe with doing the "thumb flips"? Not really using my wrist, just sticking my thumb in the opening hole and "flicking" it open. Are the violent flick of the wrist, facing the knife down while doing the wrist flick, etc.. the only real types of opening that I should avoid?

I haven't done it on my Techno since I haven't had to. This thing opens lightening quick with just my thumb flick. I just wanna make sure I'm not prematurely causing the lock wear due to the thumb flick.

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Postby Cliff Stamp » Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:32 pm

It is very difficult to say because the description you give could cover a fairly broad range of impacts depending on who is doing them. However you can feel fairly confident because the rate of wear would be linear so just keep an eye on the lock and if it has started to move too much then reduce the violence of the openings.

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:26 pm

A thumb flick is still likely many times more severe than a quick thumb opening (controlled) which is more abusive than a gentle opening.

Just buy another one if it breaks. Or flick it less often. Or don't do it at all. The consequences are earned depending on your method.

Out of curiosity, why do you want to open it this way? It's cool looking but not the most reliable method of opening a folder. It's IMHO far from the ideal method if under duress.
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Postby kbuzbee » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:31 pm

Blerv wrote: It's IMHO far from the ideal method if under duress.
Agreed. When under duress, I find I prefer peanut butter ;)

Ken
玉鋼

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:39 pm

kbuzbee wrote:Agreed. When under duress, I find I prefer peanut butter ;)

Ken
Only if you use a reverse grip to spread it. :D

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:53 pm

Pre-PB&J? We are a sandwich-happy bunch :) .
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araneae
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Postby araneae » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:15 pm

I wouldn't worry about wearing out your knife by opening it; unless you are obsessively opening all day long.
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
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The "Spirit" of the design does not come through unless used. -Sal

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:24 pm

Ok, let's look at it this way. Flick heck and open obsessively a $200 knife and wear out the lock in say 3 years. That's $200/36=$5.56 a month, or 18 cents a day. That's pretty cheap for the enjoyment you get if you like flicking your knives.

yesyes
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Postby yesyes » Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:28 pm

Well normally, I don't thumb flick it open at all. I usually just open with a smooth motion. When I first get a new knife, I'm like a kid in a candy store and I can't help but play with it the first couple of days :p

And by thumb flick, I mean how many of the YouTube reviewers for the knife have opened it. Makes it lightening quick.

But I'm not too worried since I've thumb flicked it open maybe 20 times, if that in the couple days I've had it. I love the knife so much I might buy another 2 for backup and just in case it ever gets discontinued.

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Postby Blerv » Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:53 pm

I'm sure it's fine. Wear and tear is amplified by time and intensity. A few openings is not enough time to do much unless you have pneumatic pistons instead of tendons :) .

Yea though, flicking isn't really as fast as it seems. If you can push the blade into a locked position in a fraction of a second going faster isn't going to help much besides extra street cred. My 2 cents.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

yesyes
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Postby yesyes » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:54 pm

Yeah, I only thumb flick it when I first get it. I just want to make sure I didn't ruin it with those thumb flicks the first couple of days I've had my Techno. This thing is too cool.

nozh2002
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Postby nozh2002 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:59 pm

yesyes wrote:Hey guys, I was wondering, how strong is that R.I.L.? This is my first experience with it. Will this thing literally last forever? I have read that on back locks, constant wrist-flipping opening or those inertia flips can destroy the back lock. Is this the case with the R.I.L.? I don't really open my knife those ways, I was just wondering. I do flip it open with some force when I open it with a thumb flip because it's so smooth. I was just wondering if it'll ruin anything or put premature wear on the lock like with back locks.
Only benefit of Integral lock - version of Walker liner lock over other liner lock is that you may manually by your own fingers push lock bar in and so make lock stronger.
It does wear same as back lock, but if liner lock made right it will work with some wear just going deeper in, you may check what part of blade back and lock are engaged
in the locking.

Liner lock may loose if lock bur got bended which make it shorter, lock edge may deform - nothing really specialy strong about it.
Some made bar thick, some use hardened steel bit on the end of the bar, but there is nothing special in this lock design which
make it stronger then major competing locking mechanisms.

Do not relay on marketing materials too much - they tend to hype things a bit.

Flipping may put bit more wear then slow opening, but most likely you may notice this difference in few hundred years of normal
use...
Set to be ignored by everybody.

Effectevely I am banned, but this is done the way nobody noticed, which means
Spyderco knows pretty well, that this ban is wrong and tries to hide that.

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Postby KardinalSyn » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:52 am

Nothing like cutting up peanut butter sandwiches with a Millie. Even when under duress.
:spyder: Centofante3 (C66PBK3), ParaMilitary2 (C81GPCMO), Endura4 (C10P), GrassHopper (C138P), Military (C36GPCMO), Perrin PPT (C135GP), Squeak (C154PBK), Dragonfly 2 Salt (C28PYL2), Military M390 CF (C36CFM390P), R (C67GF), ParaMilitary2 CTS-XHP (C81GPOR2), Tuff (C151GTIP), Ladybug & Perrin Street Bowie (FB04PBB)being the newest.

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Postby DigitalUrbanCamo » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:43 am

Ankerson wrote:All locks will wear out in time......

Under normal use it's more than strong enough and will last a life time.

Various things will speed up wear such as constant flicking and other abuse of the knives.

Bottom line is if a knife is a flip toy the lock will wear out faster than one that isn't...
Are you telling me that knives aren't made for couch flipping? Oh crap! :eek: :D

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JNewell
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Postby JNewell » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:56 am

chuck_roxas45 wrote:Ok, let's look at it this way. Flick heck and open obsessively a $200 knife and wear out the lock in say 3 years. That's $200/36=$5.56 a month, or 18 cents a day. That's pretty cheap for the enjoyment you get if you like flicking your knives.
Even if you did wear the knife out over that period, it's still a lot cheaper than, say, cigarettes. :)


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