Karahawk?

[sal]

Thanx Mike. Always appreciate your input.

The Karahawk was not designed for manipulation techniqe. There are plenty of those on the market. In working with a number of Karambits, I felt there was an opening for a simple, compact version designed for very rapid depolyment, very secure grip and quick to the ready. As mentioned, weapon retention would be such a function. Ernie's "hook" fit the bill for very rapid, a hole for more socially friendly openings. Very thin G-10 for grip. The model could be thin as the large finger hole will keep the piece from twisting. I designed the knife to be too short for a full grip without using a finger in the hole. Index finger for "reverse grip, edge out". Have to switch the clip to the other side and use the front of the pocket to wave the knife open. Pinky in the hole for forward grip, edge down. open on the back of the pocket. I wanted to use a lock-back with careful placement of the lever to avoid sqeezing the lever with a palm. I also like the strong self close of a lock-back. The liners are skeletonized to lessen carry weight, and the finger hole is open. VG-10 is a good high performance, tough, reliable stainless steel, and the maker in Seki is exceptional at this type of unit. At 3mm thick, it's not going to break easily. If demand is there for Law enforcement or military, we'll make a black version.

The model was created in the spirit of the P'Kal where secure grip and reliable function are necessary for the person carrying the model. Probably more expensive than we'd all like, but quality and reliablily does cost more.

sal

[Blerv]

Thanks for your input Sal :) The blade looks quite a bit longer than the Warren Thomas but perhaps that's just the less extreme curvature. Approximately how long is the blade?

[sal]

2-3/8" (60mm) from the end of the G-10 scale.

sal

[JD Spydo]

Being the devout HAWKBILL fan that I am this model has for sure caught my interest. I never really cared much for the original Karambit by Warren Thomas for being a viable self defense weapon. But as with all other Hawkbills I love working with I'm truly wondering if this model has any practical tool value. In other words can it be used to any advantage over any of the other great Spyderco Hawkbills?

With the success I've had with the Harpy, Spyderhawk and Tasman I would really have to see how it performs before I would add one to my arsenal of blades. Also is this model going to be available in Spyderedge? If not then I'll probably pass all together on this one. But if they do offer it in Spyderedge then I will certainly give it a fair trial.

More than anything at this time my 2 top Hawkbill dream knives are the return of the G-10 Harpy and a full Spyderedged Superhawk. If those can't be done then I'll settle with a G-10 version of the Spyderhawk.

[Blerv]

2-3/8" (60mm) from the end of the G-10 scale.

sal

Terrific :)

[Bladekeeper]

Any idea just ball park figure of release ? or anybody can compare a shot to release of other models be greatly appreciated.

[Chipped Karambit]

Being the devout HAWKBILL fan that I am this model has for sure caught my interest. I never really cared much for the original Karambit by Warren Thomas for being a viable self defense weapon. But as with all other Hawkbills I love working with I'm truly wondering if this model has any practical tool value. In other words can it be used to any advantage over any of the other great Spyderco Hawkbills?

With the success I've had with the Harpy, Spyderhawk and Tasman I would really have to see how it performs before I would add one to my arsenal of blades. Also is this model going to be available in Spyderedge? If not then I'll probably pass all together on this one. But if they do offer it in Spyderedge then I will certainly give it a fair trial.

More than anything at this time my 2 top Hawkbill dream knives are the return of the G-10 Harpy and a full Spyderedged Superhawk. If those can't be done then I'll settle with a G-10 version of the Spyderhawk.

Basically, to keep it short and sweet,
Better grip with ring locking you in. The ring can be used for punching(punch the chin to lift the head and expose the throat)
When you swing, you can put your body into it
(There is more but that is the main points)

I hope it doesn't come in spyderedge because that will get caught on clothes or in bone.

My only regret is that I can't do submissions with it safely (An advantage of fixed karambits, I prefer to do it because it is nonviolent and ends a situation pretty fast) but I am pretty sure it may end up in my carry

Glad to see that I am not the only one who practiced with a karambit. Cheers to Michael and Bladekeeper!
Now we wait for the spyderco Golok lol

[Dr Heelhook]

Great idea. I have a Spyderco WT Karambit and it works so great with the zip wave. I like the compact size of the Karahawk too, hope it'll become a hit.

[Bladekeeper]

When I was asked the limitations of a folding karambit opposed to a fixed mike janich posted and to be honest I'm not practicing now and owing to a chainsaw accident only train upperbody.
The submission techniques I saw and was taught were also mirrored by counter techniques not just for somebody else having a blade , but more significantly somebody who doesn't.
Take a double disarm grip you strike ,the person grips your arm and inverts the blade the counter I was taught in that instance is to apply the same to the other guys free arm.
Now you have your hand with a karambit in being held twisted with your fist towards your stomach chest etc, you have the other guys arm with your free arm .
The person who breaks the deadlock in this position does so with a step back and bringing his hand up towards his face bending his elbow, (the advantage usually lies with the guy not holding a knife in this situation) .
They then step in towards your chest stepping their leg over yours slipping their free arm under your arm pit now with this move you are up a gum tree with a folding karambit.
That person now has your arm bent upwards , your wrist bent backwards it would be quite easy to disengage a lock causing you at the least to cut a serious portion off your finger or lose digits.
The outcome with a fixed may not be great but this instance would be much worse.

I am not at a level where I would feel confident that I had a reasonable odds in that situation I am no expert I'm a beginner , I did want however to add my own input .
I hope this reads ok and can be understood it also was 15-16 years ago since I can say I have had real tuition with the guys qualified to teach.
I don't want to come across like another Internet ninja and since my accident all somebody need do is kick my leg and I'm done :D .
I think however a good karambit can be of a greater benifit to somebody who has limitations with their legs but belive a fixed to be better for me.
Although I won't be missing this one if I can get it here in the uk thanks guys.

[sal]

Hey Bladekeeper,

Been following the legal thread on the Karahawk in BB. Keep up posted on your conclusions.

sal

[Bladekeeper]

Thanks Sal your post was really appreciated there because it holds a lot of water I will be regularly updating with eager anticipation , I really am terrible at waiting .
I'm already working on the wife gotta keep her sweet that's rule # 1 :D

[Chipped Karambit]

Hey Bladekeeper,
I to used to have a problem (Split my knee cap a few years back in an odd occurrence but now im back up to like 95%) I noticed that problem and have had many other karambits close on me during a back hook. Leaves an interesting mark and not quite fun. I started using submissions out of Aikido using the back, since its without an edge, as an extra lock, leaving me standing over someone using a submission with one hand and one hand free prepped for the next strike.

I understand the use of a fixed karambit just was well ( I prefer but carrying one is not the easiest to conceal or legal in some places, a 3 inch fixed blade karambit [or maybe 2.5 ]would be great!) but there is an advantage to folding. The portability and with the wave, the ease of access. Not all people walk up to you or you see them coming. Many people come out of no where or bull rush you. It is hard to pull most knives out in the situation (Fixed or folding[and if folding,opening without hurting yourself]) The ability just to put a finger and flip it out in open is great for unexpected situations. I admit my ground work is not the best, but I can get a low stance once recovered. With a Karambit out in a low stance you probably understand the dynamics of the fight in that situation. A lot of good striking areas. that will stop an attacker. The ability to conceal it better and pull it out quickly and have a quick strike when you need it works well. You just have to remember that it isn't fixed ( A mistake I have made by the odd marks on my knuckle for each size karambit that I forgot with and tried to do a strong back hook to go into a lock.) My pinky hates me when I forget to say the least

A good thing about a karambit to is that you can hide the blade like in traditional use easy. Keep it closed and you have an impact tool. they just see a knuckle, then when needed you can swing low against your pants to open it. But practicality, most people who you fight with a karambit, wouldn't know the difference in defend professionally. The intimidation factor is what most people need to deter a fight. And at the end of the day, I would rather not fight then to fight someone.

This may be an odd thought, but technically, an OTF Karambit is possible, doubt it has been done though. Double edge with some teeth. That would be unique lol.

[sal]

Hey Chipped Karambit,

What types of locks did your folders have?

sal

[Pockets]

This turned into a really interesting discussion. I didn't know you could use a karambit like that. Thank you.

[chuck_roxas45]

Hey Bladekeeper,
I to used to have a problem (Split my knee cap a few years back in an odd occurrence but now im back up to like 95%) I noticed that problem and have had many other karambits close on me during a back hook. Leaves an interesting mark and not quite fun. I started using submissions out of Aikido using the back, since its without an edge, as an extra lock, leaving me standing over someone using a submission with one hand and one hand free prepped for the next strike.

I understand the use of a fixed karambit just was well ( I prefer but carrying one is not the easiest to conceal or legal in some places, a 3 inch fixed blade karambit [or maybe 2.5 ]would be great!) but there is an advantage to folding. The portability and with the wave, the ease of access. Not all people walk up to you or you see them coming. Many people come out of no where or bull rush you. It is hard to pull most knives out in the situation (Fixed or folding[and if folding,opening without hurting yourself]) The ability just to put a finger and flip it out in open is great for unexpected situations. I admit my ground work is not the best, but I can get a low stance once recovered. With a Karambit out in a low stance you probably understand the dynamics of the fight in that situation. A lot of good striking areas. that will stop an attacker. The ability to conceal it better and pull it out quickly and have a quick strike when you need it works well. You just have to remember that it isn't fixed ( A mistake I have made by the odd marks on my knuckle for each size karambit that I forgot with and tried to do a strong back hook to go into a lock.) My pinky hates me when I forget to say the least

A good thing about a karambit to is that you can hide the blade like in traditional use easy. Keep it closed and you have an impact tool. they just see a knuckle, then when needed you can swing low against your pants to open it. But practicality, most people who you fight with a karambit, wouldn't know the difference in defend professionally. The intimidation factor is what most people need to deter a fight. And at the end of the day, I would rather not fight then to fight someone.

This may be an odd thought, but technically, an OTF Karambit is possible, doubt it has been done though. Double edge with some teeth. That would be unique lol.

Ahh thanks, that's a more "real world" use of a fixed karambit over a folding one.

[Bladekeeper]

Chuck-roxas 45 I see your location is the Philippines with a general karambit fixed or folding what's your real world application of the knife.
Do you practice martial defence ? The Philippines have lots of different styles or do you use it for practical cutting tasks the karambit , kerambit in Indonesia and Malay islands as you know derived from a farming tool as well as self defence my brother lives and is from Indonesia.
Discussing with them the agricultural tool is of a varied size not dissimilar to the ones we are talking of in shape but in size certainly .
Or like me would you say its primary use these days for most folk is as they are for me a collection piece thanks I'd like your input . Bk

[Chipped Karambit]

This turned into a really interesting discussion. I didn't know you could use a karambit like that. Thank you.

I enjoy it because it can be a nonlethal tool, and if needed the intimidation factor can end a fight fast. Even flipping a Karambit as if it was a double edged fixed blade makes even the most determined of people stop. Best way to win a fight is not fighting. And if you do have to, it is best not to have to use the edge. You can still be in trouble for using a knife as an impact tool, just keep that in mind. But all in all, it is less violent or lethal

Hey Chipped Karambit,

What types of locks did your folders have?

sal

So far all of them have been liner locks. An Integral lock would be good or possibly an OTF system, curious about a back lock and curious to see how it will work with a Wave though. I suppose the back lock you have planned will get rid of the lock rock I get from use. (My old Waved Karambit (from another company) developed lock rock from practice where I press the tip of the blade and move the lock a bit) After a lot of use and practice, I understand how a back lock would probably have more strength.

Ahh thanks, that's a more "real world" use of a fixed karambit over a folding one.

luckily for me, I live in a port town, so I used to use karambits (Now replaced with a ziptie lil matriarch, love this knife) a lot to deal with ropes (even though I don't work there, I just seem to come by a lot of rope??) It has a lot of use in every day living, but in the end, it was a farming tool that that now is used for Self defense. It is nice to have something to carry that you can control. Just because you can fight doesn't mean you have to. The karambit is a good knife for self control. Kind of hard with that curve to cut a cigar though.

[Holland]

cool looking knife, but definitely not my cup of tea

[sal]

I'm already working on the wife gotta keep her sweet that's rule # 1 :D

SWMBO mut be forever sweet.

sal

[Bladekeeper]

Having spoke recently with relatives in s,e Asia and friends I have been told that although used for farming that version is longer and more curved .
The folding karambit a western design by its profile is derived more from the Filipino type of kerambit note the different spellings.
However one good long term friend in Thailand who owns a huge fruit farm has looked at this and stated it would be perfect for the workers who cut tamarin and lychee also other fruits.
So another use although I'm not sure how the blade steel would fair against the natural acids in these fruits as I'm a steel noob .