Karahawk?

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Pockets
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Karahawk?

Postby Pockets » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:09 pm

Delica PE, Dragonfly Salt SE, Stretch SE, Manbug SE, Mule 16, Sage 1, black/satin PM2, Native 5

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sharpguitarist
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Postby sharpguitarist » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:19 pm

Hey Pockets,
It's real.
Check out the '13 Shot Show prototype videos by Mr. Blonde. It's on page two of the thread.
Looks like a cool design.
Later,
Don
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, even if it is wrong.:rolleyes:

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Pockets
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Postby Pockets » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:23 pm

I just saw it. Not really my cup of tea, but cool nonetheless.
Delica PE, Dragonfly Salt SE, Stretch SE, Manbug SE, Mule 16, Sage 1, black/satin PM2, Native 5

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Postby greenewk » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:31 pm

Yeah, it looks like a pretty wicked tactical folder. That index finger deployment with the wave sold me.

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Postby Liquid Cobra » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:47 pm

Shut up and take my money!

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Postby stonyman » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:00 pm

Yeah this design may be an upgrade from the Warren Thomas one that I happen to like. Unfortunately there are those that misinterpret what the karambit is and is not........I think this model is an upgrade. I have big mits, but will give a try.......take care and God Bless....stonyman.

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Postby Bladekeeper » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:19 am

I have a few and also lived in indonesia & malaysia and there I never saw a ringed version .
Usually bone , horn or wood with a recurved handle and a blade that resembles a cats claw in shape more than anything else.
I Like it and probably will get it due to spyderco quality , although im hot keen on the wave as functional as it is its not uk legal therefore a collection piece.

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Postby JLS » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:59 am

stonyman wrote:Yeah this design may be an upgrade from the Warren Thomas one that I happen to like. Unfortunately there are those that misinterpret what the karambit is and is not........I think this model is an upgrade. I have big mits, but will give a try.......take care and God Bless....stonyman.
Agreed. This looks to fold a little slimmer in the pocket and the Emerson Wave is a good feature to have on this...sure beats the zip tie wave on my current Spyderco karambit. I'm looking forward to this later this year.
42 Spyderco fixed blades and counting...

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:02 am

A folding kerambit without a wave is a pretty silly tool. The WT may have the more useful curvature but this looks like a much better overall knife.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Postby Bladekeeper » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:06 pm

It's subjective Blerv as I stated if it was a legal EDC then I'd agree but as its not and is going to be a collection piece aesthetically the wave is redundant IMO.
As for me I prefer a fixed karambit having practiced Silat there are functional reasons for that and the folding ones by the fact they fold cannot be used in the same manner.
The folding karambit is a western design and during many discussions with Malaysians and Indonesians whom have as much history as phillipinos with this knife , have all stated that a lot of the defensive properties are lost when it is produced as a folder.
It has been a long time and I am no expert I was privileged to be taught things westerners aren't familiar with , these guys can make a sarong a deadly weapon .

It's also important I add a similar design which the karambit as we know it derived from is a farming tool for cutting grain and other crop, although I'm sure most of you guys know.

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Postby 3Speedyfish3 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:42 am

I saw the Karahawk at SHOT Show 2013. It looked great. Good proportions and features. I like my Emerson Karambit, but this one was a bit more refined with all the same attributes.

Randall

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AKWolf
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Postby AKWolf » Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:04 am

Wow, with some practice this piece has a lot of capabilities. That big stainless ring wow . :spyder:
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:55 am

Bladekeeper wrote:It's subjective Blerv as I stated if it was a legal EDC then I'd agree but as its not and is going to be a collection piece aesthetically the wave is redundant IMO.
As for me I prefer a fixed karambit having practiced Silat there are functional reasons for that and the folding ones by the fact they fold cannot be used in the same manner.
The folding karambit is a western design and during many discussions with Malaysians and Indonesians whom have as much history as phillipinos with this knife , have all stated that a lot of the defensive properties are lost when it is produced as a folder.
It has been a long time and I am no expert I was privileged to be taught things westerners aren't familiar with , these guys can make a sarong a deadly weapon .

It's also important I add a similar design which the karambit as we know it derived from is a farming tool for cutting grain and other crop, although I'm sure most of you guys know.
I'm curious, what functions are negated by a folding karambit?

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Pockets
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Postby Pockets » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:38 am

^ I was wondering that too. Maybe there are grips that would release the lock?
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Michael Janich
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Postby Michael Janich » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:09 am

I agree that folding karambits are significantly less versatile as martial tools than fixed blades. Here's why:

If you look at a well-designed fixed-blade karambit, you'll find that it is typically double edged and/or has a series of teeth on the convex edge. In many cases, the blades have a more gentle curve--alomost a banana shape. On the back of the handle--adjacent to the ring--there is often a slight concave section, sometimes called a "brake." If all these features are present, the concept is that the "spinning" action of swinging the blade out to extension on the index finger and then back to a reverse grip offers the potential of multiple cuts.

To understand this, imagine starting with the knife in reverse grip at a distance from your adversary. He thinks you're out of range, but by snapping your arm forward and spinning the karambit out, you strike with the sharpened or toothed back of the blade with an unexpected extended reach. This tactic is also one reason that the blade cannot be too radically curved. If its curve is too tight, the outside radius of the cutting edge defines a near-perfect circle when spun, creating a shallow, ineffective cut. If the blade is straighter, it cuts deeper.

In the extended position, the next potential cut is to use the convex cutting edge. To do this, the index finger maintains control of the knife and the back of the handle is braced against the front of the knuckles. This is where the "brake" comes in. If there is no relief cut for the middle finger, it becomes a fulcrum and hard cutting pressure will break the finger. In all fairness, I have seen some karambit styles and martial arts systems that use karambits without "brakes." They do cut with the convex edge with the blade extended, but focus primarily on linear pulling cuts rather than arced cuts, minimizing the pressure on the middle finger. Still, having actually done cutting tests with a variety of karambit designs, my middle finger and I very much prefer karambits with brakes.

The final type of cut is the most basic and powerful. Swing the knife back into a solid reverse grip and cut with the concave edge. If you look at many systems of silat, you'll see unusual punches that hit from angles or "wedge" the opponent's arms out of the way. In many cases, these movements represent the use of the karambit in this solid grip. No spinning, no fancy stuff--just punching or wedging "past" a target with the fist while plowing through with the blade.

With all this said, the shortcomings of a folding karambit should be clear. Smacking an armed attacker with the unsharpened back of a blade and, in the process, tempting the blade to close is just not a practical tactic. If the handle design isn't comfortable for pull cuts, you will injure your hand if you try to do them with power. Your most effective cuts will be the ones you can deliver with enough power to cause debilitating damage to your attacker--probably the ones delivered with a full reverse grip. That's why, as Bladekeeper rightly pointed out, many traditional karambits did not have rings. Others had rings with extended tabs or spikes for striking that made spinning them impossible.

I hope this helps. Karambits can be great fun. Like balisongs, they are yo-yos for knife guys (and gals). And, like balisongs, you shouldn't confuse dexterity and physical manipulation with combative function. Sometimes they are the same--sometimes not.

Stay safe,

Mike
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Postby Bladekeeper » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:47 am

I can't improve on that answer and it would be arrogant of me to try thanks mr janich .

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Postby Bladekeeper » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:44 am

Rather than start a new thread asking this question how long does it roughly take from shot show release to production and being able to purchase.
Obviously it varies but if anyone can give an example of a previous shot to sale time I would be grateful thanks .

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:32 am

Folding kbit are a pragmatic answer to current legalities. The wave just makes it functional to draw as you don't have to fumble as much getting into grip (assuming reverse). Based on Eric's video forward grip seems convenient with or without the wave since no transition.

Interesting knife. Thanks for the details Mike! Not sure the spinning mindset and I get along but that doesn't say many FMA practioniers don't. I know a few that prefer to avoid it like the plague and others that do it quite well (like Kaligman).
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:00 am

Blerv wrote:Folding kbit are a pragmatic answer to current legalities. The wave just makes it functional to draw as you don't have to fumble as much getting into grip (assuming reverse). Based on Eric's video forward grip seems convenient with or without the wave since no transition.

Interesting knife. Thanks for the details Mike! Not sure the spinning mindset and I get along but that doesn't say many FMA practioniers don't. I know a few that prefer to avoid it like the plague and others that do it quite well (like Kaligman).
Yeh, do a lot of practitioners really spin in a real situation? I knew a few pretty good balisong flippers who would open with two hands when they were expecting something.

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Postby Blerv » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:55 am

I'm sure there is a case for everything but expect most (not all) of the dancing and feinting to be at a distance. People tend to boil down technique to the basics when someone is swinging at their face. Like everything this is dependant on the person though and their methodology.

I do love this design. Thanks Mike, Sal, Eric, Ernie and all the rest! Besides being a great adaptation it seems a terrific weapon retention aid for the gun folks.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:


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