Vallotton Sub-Hilt Full Review

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Evil D
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Vallotton Sub-Hilt Full Review

#1

Post by Evil D »

I've had this knife for almost 6 months, and up until the time i got my Yojimbo 2, it was seeing a lot of pocket time. I figure it's time for a proper review. It's a bit long winded but i tried to go into great detail about the finer points. It's too long for a single post so I have to break it up into 2 parts. I broke it down to categories, so without further ado...(this was originally typed as a PM to a fellow forumite, so it may sound as if i'm speaking TO someone)..

The Blade:
S30V, and It's thick, measuring 4mm almost the entire length of the blade. It doesn't have the typical distal taper that most Spydercos have these days, so the tip is super thick. You could pound this blade through a car door and i have no doubt it wouldn't hurt the tip. It's hollow ground and reasonably thin behind the edge. The tip has a sort of double grind that transitions into a convex "modified tanto" tip as Spyderco calls it. The down side to the blade being thick and hollow ground is that it transitions into the spine thickness rather quickly, and as a result it isn't the most efficient slicer, but again i've cut a lot of cardboard with this knife and it isn't THAT bad. If you regularly use something as thin and slicey as a Chaparral, then you'll immediately notice the difference, but i tend to gravitate towards the thicker knives so it hasn't really bothered me that much.

The biggest issue i've had with this blade is the edge bevel. This is something i'm really surprised that Spyderco hasn't looked into, because i don't believe this knife can actually be sharpened on a Sharpmaker with either of the 30/40 degree slots. I put the knife on my Edge Pro, and the best i could estimate was that it was around 60 inclusive (i didn't own an angle cube at the time to measure accurately, but i used the sharpie method and raised the angle until the stone took off all the marker, and it was around 60 inclusive). So, if you're a Sharpmaker user, this might be an issue. The first thing i did was reprofile the entire edge down to 30 inclusive, which was quite a task because of the convex tip. It took a lot of metal off, and resulted in a very wide bevel at the tip. It eventually destroyed my 120grit Edge Pro stone if you can believe that, because it wore the stone so much that it isn't worth the effort to flatten it again. The tip on mine is just slightly convex still, but with such a wide bevel it does make touching up the edge a bit of a challenge. Overall this is probably the worst thing about this knife, but may not be an issue if you have an efficient way to reprofile an edge.

Beyond all that, i really like the blade. As you mentioned, i too have grown a bit tired of the wide leaf shaped blades, so it's a fresh change of pace. I also like that it doesn't leave a half inch of blade hanging out of the handle when closed.

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The Lock/Pivot/Thumb studs
This is where things start getting real interesting. This knife has one of the strongest liner locks i've ever handled. People rave about the Gayle Bradley, but i would put this knife up against the GB and feel pretty confident i'd come out with a win in lock/pivot strength. I'm sure the pivot pins are probably the same size/strength between the two, and probably have the same thickness liners, but the Vallotton has a trick up its sleeve that reinforces the pivot...those signature Butch Vallotton ambidextrous thumb studs. The studs also act as a blade stop, nesting into recessed areas in the front bolsters when opened. This makes side to side play virtually impossible, since the blade presses those thumb studs into the bolsters in either direction when the blade is twisted. Coincidentally, this is also the ONLY Spyderco i've ever owned and used that has yet to develop blade play after extended use and break in (if i grasp the very tip of the blade and shake REALLY hard, i can just barely sense a bit of play, but i think you'd even feel this in a Strider or any folder for that matter. Most people would have to really know what they're feeling for to know there's any measurable amount of play). As for the thumb studs and opening the blade, I really think the only reason the studs are on there is because the knife is a collaboration, and they're one of Butch's signature features, and he did after all invent the ambidextrous thumb stud. I think the primary use is as a blade stop, because you really don't need them to open since the thumb hole is there. The two are so close together that if you put your thumb on the stud, it'll likely roll over into the hole anyway.

Also as for the lock itself, there's that weird protruding lock tab that sticks way out of the handle. This is like the polar opposite of the GB which you really have to pry your thumb nail inside to unlock. I was weary of this lock tab hindering ergonomics, but it hasn't been an issue. When you grip the knife in a saber grip, the crease of the first joint of your index finger tends to ride this lip and not feel in the way, and when you grip it with a full fisted grip I don't really even feel it. If anything it turned out to be a really cool feature that makes unlocking the blade much easier on your thumb.

It has a fairly strong detent, but if you snap your wrist hard enough you can still do inertia openings, probably due to the thick robust weight of the blade. When you open it, it lets out a nice loud snap when the lock engages and the thumb studs meet the bolsters. I've found this knife to be particularly challenging to flick open with my index finger...and i'm not really sure why that is. I don't have any problem opening it upside down in an ice pick grip using my ring finger to open.

Another thing about the blade/thumb hole is what i like to call "circle of travel". On some knives like the Yojimbo 2, the thumb hole is moved out towards the center of the blade and away from the pivot quite a bit, in order to clear the handle around the pivot. This makes the circle of travel that your thumb makes to open the blade larger, and is something that sort of bugs me. On the Vallotton, this hasn't been an issue at all. With the way the humb of the thumb hole sticks out, and the lack of any real significant guard or choil at the end of the handle, the circle of travel is small and compact feeling. I would compare it to a Para 2 in the amount of travel your thumb makes to open it.

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The Handle/Ergonomics
This may well be my favorite aspect of the knife aside from simply looking good. I was very hesitant about the thickness of this knife, because i have myself brainwashed into thinking that I only like thin profile knives that carry nice in your pocket. While this is true for how a knife carries, it does leave something to be desired in grip ergonomics. This is not so with the Vallotton. The handle is THICK and fills your hand nicely. The scales are contoured at the sides and the pivot/bolster area transitions up into the thumb ramp on the blade. One big pet peeve of mine is too much handle and not enough blade, ala Military. The Vallotton has only 1/4 inch less blade than a Military, but yet almost a full inch less overall length, because the blade to handle ratio is really close to 50/50 (The blade measures around 4.25 from pivot to tip, and the handle measures just over 4.5 from pivot to the butt of the handle...it's very close to 50/50). That's not to say the handle is short, but it definitely wasn't designed to be gripped behind the front finger choil like you can with a Military.

As for the grip feeling, this is one of the few knives i've handled that i didn't feel out of place with not having a 50/50 choil. The edge comes far back close enough to the pivot that you can do detailed work with it reasonably well, with your index finger falling around 1/4 further from the edge than you'd be on a Para 2. The shape of the handle doesn't force you into one particular grip or another, you can grip it in a saber grip and it feels just as good as a full fisted grip. In fact the only real hot spots you'll feel on the handle during extended periods of use are from the clip itself, as the rest of the handle feels fantastic in hand. If i didn't hate having things hanging from my belt, i would be very tempted to remove the clip and carry this knife in a leather sheath, because the ergos would be incredible without the clip.

Speaking of the clip, this is the other area that i was kind of disappointed with. I really wish they had gone with a unique clip design for this knife instead of the standard hour glass shape. Granted, they did give it this awesome black chrome like finish with a laser etched spyder that is really cool..I like the clip itself so much that I plan on ordering several of them to replace all the other clips on my knives that don't need a lanyard hole in them. I just feel the knife would be that much better if it had a custom clip design.
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Evil D
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#2

Post by Evil D »

Appearance/Style/Fit and Finish
This last part is likely to be very opinionated so you may agree or disagree, as everyone's tastes differ. What i really like about this knife is the way it has a balance of brute strength heft and solidness, while at the same time looking high class and stylish. The only way you could make this knife look more classy is with carbon fiber scales (which i have contemplated having made). That said, the polished G10 still looks high class. The first thing your eyes will gravitate to on this knife are the tongue-and-groove filled bolsters. They have an awesome contrast with the polished G10 and all the exposed shine from the liners. Because the blade is so thick, you can get a good clear view of the skeletonized liners, and the whole pivot area has a shiny expensive feel to it. All the scale/liner/bolster edges line up nicely with the exception of one spot...I've noticed this on every picture of this knife i've seen on the internet, and even in pictures that Blade magazine ran on the knife they reviewed...The liner that has the lock tab, where it meets up with the bolster just underneath the pivot and in front of the lock tab, does not line up with the edge of the bolster. My guess is that this was a very hard spot to machine because of the way the lock tab protrudes out, making a tight area to get into. If not for so many other pics of other knives having this same issue, i probably would have sent it in for a second look, but i just let it go. It doesn't look horrible and is something i didn't even notice on my own knife from handling it...I happened to spot it in the magazine article and then looked on my own knife to see if it was there, and now I look for it in pics online. Everything else is what you would expect from the folks at Taichung...virtual custom built fit and finish excellence. I could have done without the 4 way clip option on this knife, as i would prefer not to have the clip holes drilled into the bolsters. I don't really care for the exposed pivot screws on a bolstered knife either, but i do like to be able to adjust my pivot so that's an evil i'll live with.

Here's a detailed shot of the lock liner not lining up with the bolster.
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Dr. Snubnose
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#3

Post by Dr. Snubnose »

Very Nice Review EvilD, I was more impressed with your review than the knife itself....that being said, Great Review and enjoy the knife!....Doc :)
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#4

Post by Prospero »

Thanks for the great review, David. You certainly covered a lot of small details that others wouldn't have bothered with. It's a beautiful knife that just doesn't receive enough attention within the Spyderco catalog.
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#5

Post by The Mastiff »

Thanks Evil. Good review. It's one of my favorite all time Spydercos but so far I haven't given it the use it deserves. I love the size, stoutness and looks. IMO, it has class written all over it.

Joe
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DRH
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#6

Post by DRH »

Evil D wrote: The biggest issue i've had with this blade is the edge bevel. This is something i'm really surprised that Spyderco hasn't looked into, because i don't believe this knife can actually be sharpened on a Sharpmaker with either of the 30/40 degree slots. I put the knife on my Edge Pro, and the best i could estimate was that it was around 60 inclusive (i didn't own an angle cube at the time to measure accurately, but i used the sharpie method and raised the angle until the stone took off all the marker, and it was around 60 inclusive).
Very nice and spot-on review. This is one of my Spydercos that I don't carry much .... but LOVE to fondle! Your edge bevel observation got me curious. I just pulled my Vallotton out and measured the original factory bevel with my goniometer and mine came in at 48 degrees inclusive.
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Evil D
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#7

Post by Evil D »

DRH wrote:Very nice and spot-on review. This is one of my Spydercos that I don't carry much .... but LOVE to fondle! Your edge bevel observation got me curious. I just pulled my Vallotton out and measured the original factory bevel with my goniometer and mine came in at 48 degrees inclusive.
Was that at the flat spot of the bevel or the tip?
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racer88
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#8

Post by racer88 »

Nice review. I think it's the most "handsome" Spydie I own (out of about 50). I haven't really carried it, yet. But, I'm happy to have it.

Some close-up / detail photos:

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#9

Post by dbcad »

Nice review David :)

I do notice from the pics that the tip seems to have been thinned a bit. Is that your handiwork? :)
Charlie

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#10

Post by bh49 »

Nice review David,
Thank you
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#11

Post by DeathBySnooSnoo »

Very nice review and I agree with many of your comments. As much as I don't like the exposed pivot screw, I am glad that it is there...I like being able to make adjustments.

Mine has a massive bevel, probably close to 60 degrees as well. I just wish that I had the tools to get it down to at least 40. But as I have a sharpmaker and some loose DMT stones...I think that it will likely stay at 60.

I do want to get a second one eventually. Just because I find it too good looking to carry.
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Uke
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#12

Post by Uke »

Really great review, it answered lots of things for me that I've always wondered about the Vallotton. Thanks for taking the time!
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#13

Post by Minibear453 »

Oh great. I was gonna get the Navaja.. but now? Now I have to reconsider. Great review though!
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#14

Post by racer88 »

Minibear453 wrote:Oh great. I was gonna get the Navaja.. but now? Now I have to reconsider. Great review though!
Get both! They are both worth getting, for sure!
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#15

Post by DRH »

Evil D wrote:Was that at the flat spot of the bevel or the tip?
Measurement taken approximately 1 inch from tip ... closest to the tip I can position the knife and get an accurate measurement. The edge bevel, however looks pretty consistent along the enter blade.
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#16

Post by OldSarSwmr »

Evil D, thanks for the thorough and well written review. I really like my Vallotton but admittedly I haven't carried it much. Your review made me go pull it out and put it in the EDC pile. Thanks for reminding me of what a great knife it is.
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#17

Post by DRKBC »

Great review David, I am worried about the size and the weight. I have a Lum tanto which it seems to be very close to in size and that's not an issue on the other hand I have a red Persian that is a similar size but heavy (like the Vallotton) and kind of slippery feeling in the hand, I love the look of it, but don't carry it. I like to EDC my knives and as usual I won't be able to see or handle one before purchasing it, as it will be an online purchase. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dwayne
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Evil D
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#18

Post by Evil D »

DRKBC wrote:Great review David, I am worried about the size and the weight. I have a Lum tanto which it seems to be very close to in size and that's not an issue on the other hand I have a red Persian that is a similar size but heavy (like the Vallotton) and kind of slippery feeling in the hand, I love the look of it, but don't carry it. I like to EDC my knives and as usual I won't be able to see or handle one before purchasing it, as it will be an online purchase. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Dwayne

Well, weight is definitely a factor. Your red Persian comes in at 5.4oz compared to the Vallotton's 6.2, so if you think the Persian is too heavy then this will be worse. The handle is completely smooth, so if you used it with greasy/wet hands it would likely slip in your hand, despite having really nice ergonomics. The thickness of the handle does aid in grip though, and through regular dry EDC i have no problem at all keeping a solid grip. As far as size it's only a tad bit longer overall than the Persian and actually a tiny bit shorter than the Lum Tanto. The Tanto is lighter than the other two at 4.3oz.

If you haven't already, i would just mull over the details in the catalog and try to make a decision that way. My first thread about this knife stated that it was too heavy, too thick, too slippery, not the best grind for slicing etc etc, and despite all that i love the knife even though it goes against most of the things i look for in a knife.

Here's some links for ya:
Vallotton: http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=668
Persian: http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=594
Lum Tanto: http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=683
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#19

Post by DRKBC »

Thanks David,

The problem for me with the Persian is a combination of things. I think it feels slippery in my hand mostly because of the shape of the handle in relation to my hand I either seem to be to far back or to far forward on it it and the flat sided handle kind of adds to the issue (for me). The rounded handle of the Vallotton and the jimping I would think would help a lot. Nothing beats being able to handle the knife pre purchase, but I like a lot of things about this knife.
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#20

Post by Holland »

great review! nice read
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