Sharpening Hawkbills & Reverse S: How to?

[JD Spydo]

Many people that I've tried to make into Hawkbill disciples have thrown 2 negative complaints at me as to why they won't attempt to use the blades with a bend. And that also is pretty much true with Reverse S blades as well.

I want to know what method you Hawkbill enthusiasts and Reverse S owners use to sharpen those particular blade styles. Currently I'm trying out 2 new methods that I hadn't used in the past. One that I've had some luck with is my old Spyderco Galley V sharpener. It really puts an excellent final touch on Hawkbills and Reverse S both. I know many of you will say that the Sharpmaker will do anything the Galley V will do but it seems like I have a bit more working room with the Galley V. The "Cat's Eye" stones of the Galley V have an arch to them that seem to really accomodate bent blades. It is about the only one I'll use on my Dodo anymore.

Also lately I'm hear that DMT and possibly 2 other manufacturers of sharpening equipment now have devices making it easier to do blades with bends and arches. Reverse S blades are particularly tricky due to the fact that they are multi-directional and require a very steady hand.

But I know that many of you have probably found new ways to sharpen these types of blades. And what about these diamond steels that have flooded the market? And what about Spyderco's slip stone?>> I've had some interesting results with it here lately.

[Invective]

As I've mentioned in other threads, I am a poor college student and haven't been able to acquire funds for a decent sharpening system (too busy buying knives, I keep saying I'll buy a sharpener after the next knife but then I find a new knife to lust after :P) and have found that for recurves and hawkbills, wrapping a pencil, pen, dowel, or other small cylindrical object with sandpaper yields the best results for my knives. Granted, all I have sharpened are my Superhawk and roommates ZT 0350 but it works for me. Never touched a Reverse-S with this method though.

[xceptnl]

I use the DMT aligner with their curved stone for reprofiling. Touchups and microbevels I typically do freehand on my Spyderco 701 Profile stones. I have been wanting to try some of the DMT Flexi-sharp sheets on G-10 blocks made to the curvature I desire. Have not made the move yet, but plan to start this little project after first of the year.

[JD Spydo]

As I've mentioned in other threads, I am a poor college student and haven't been able to acquire funds for a decent sharpening system (too busy buying knives, I keep saying I'll buy a sharpener after the next knife but then I find a new knife to lust after :P) and have found that for recurves and hawkbills, wrapping a pencil, pen, dowel, or other small cylindrical object with sandpaper yields the best results for my knives. Granted, all I have sharpened are my Superhawk and roommates ZT 0350 but it works for me. Never touched a Reverse-S with this method though.

That's good thinking on your behalf "Invective">> however I would like to stress one very important point. If you're going to use or even take knives as a serious hobby I can't stress enough how important it is to learn the skill for yourself. Before you buy your next knife I would say to you to go ahead and get a Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker and learn everything you can about it. There are now several good YOUTube videos and some are really good and informative on tips on using the Sharpmaker for all kinds of blades.

Not to mention it will give you a comprehensive, basic overall knowledge about sharpening in general. But knowing how to properly sharpen blades is a very valuable and useful skill to know.

[JD Spydo]

I use the DMT aligner with their curved stone for reprofiling. Touchups and microbevels I typically do freehand on my Spyderco 701 Profile stones. I have been wanting to try some of the DMT Flexi-sharp sheets on G-10 blocks made to the curvature I desire. Have not made the move yet, but plan to start this little project after first of the year.

I am hearing more and more about the virtues of the DMT Aligner system. It sounds like they have a diamond stone that might be like the "Cat's Eye" stone I use a lot out of my old Galley V sharpening system. With that arched stone they have available I do believe that could be a super aid for Hawkbills and probably Reverse S blades both. I still prefer the ceramic Spyderco stones to finish with however but I'm always open to trying out new things.

I've said many times that the 701 Profiles are probably one of Spyderco's best kept secrets. After all the years I've been on the forum here and over at BF I'm still just dumbfounded as to how few of knife affis that are aware of the 701 Profile MF kit. That kit has truly been a super addition to my footlocker full of sharpening tools. There aren't too many knives or edged tools that you can't use the 701 Profiles on. I was sad to see them discontinued. They say that the Goldenstone has everything you need to take the place of the 701 Profiles but I still like using then even though I have a Goldenstone and Duckfoot and love them dearly and use them on occassion. To me the Profiles are much more portable and I have the luxury of a medium stone which I don't as of yet with the Goldenstone which I do hope will be available in other grits down the line. But the Profiles are not only very handy but do a very precise job especially on Spyderedges. They are the only tool I currently use on Spyderedges until I find something equal or better.

[Invective]

That's good thinking on your behalf "Invective">> however I would like to stress one very important point. If you're going to use or even take knives as a serious hobby I can't stress enough how important it is to learn the skill for yourself. Before you buy your next knife I would say to you to go ahead and get a Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker and learn everything you can about it. There are now several good YOUTube videos and some are really good and informative on tips on using the Sharpmaker for all kinds of blades.

Not to mention it will give you a comprehensive, basic overall knowledge about sharpening in general. But knowing how to properly sharpen blades is a very valuable and useful skill to know.

Yeah, I keep telling myself that. At first I was planning to get one but then I snagged a great deal on a Techno, and then after that a Terzuola Slipit, and just a whole host of other great disco'd knives. I'll probably get the Sharpmaker as a Christmas present to myself :D I've been able to get my knives pretty sharp just freehand but I would like to invest in a Sharpmaker as well. Having sandpaper all over is annoying >.< thanks for the advice!

[Sithus1966]

I have a DMT Aligner system and got the curved stone after getting a PE Tasman salt. I have used it on the Tasman, SuperHawk and orange Dodo. Aligner bugs me though as it does not always want to line the blade up centered, so I have to watch the angles I use on each side to match. If it's just a touchup then I use the Sharpmaker.

[BadFish]

You could use the bottom of a ceramic coffee mug, use the rough circle part. Same thing with the back the toilet lol.

[Blerv]

IMHO for people without something like an EdgePro serrated (and hawked) knives make a ton of sense. The edge cuts more aggressively and for longer due to geometry.

Once you get to the point where such a knife is noticeably dull (a VERY long time) with a rounded sharpening tool you can babysit each tooth and scallop. If not you can still hit the back edge and straighten/sharpen it like that. Often I'll just lay the 701 fine stone flat and hit the back edge once a week for a few strokes, then put it away totally skipping the toothed side. It's lazy but in about a minute it's noticeably sharper.

It seems these toothed knives are less burr sensitive. Granted my ability to produce a pristine edge is novice compared to many on this board, but for a functionally sharp tool it's simple. My serrated hawkbills often won't shave paper with the same zeal but they are plenty sharp for honest work.

Many people who hate hawkbills/reverse s and serrations have come to this conclusion by hours of proper sharpening and cutting. Most of them come to that by word of mouth or speculation. I wasn't a huge fan this kind of blade until I forced myself to carry a Ladybug SE and Dragonfly SE (AUS8) to work for a few months. Like coffee or dark beer sometimes it's an acquired taste, sometimes you still hate the beverages. :)

[JD Spydo]

Blerv I think you've hit on some good points in your last post. I do think you're right for the most part about people's apprehension of serrated edges. Because people tend to repel against something they don't understand or they tend to run the other way if they perceive that there is lot of work or maintenance.

Serrated Spyderedges aren't that hard to properly sharpen with the right equipment and I still maintain that the 701 Profiles are the best tool to sharpen them with. You sure can use the 204 Sharpmaker to sharpen Spyderedges with but if you want them to look and perform like they did when they came from the factory then the 701 Profiles are the ticket.

I'm going to reserve my opinion about the Duckfoot and Goldenstone for now because I just haven't done many Spyderedges with mine yet. And I still like the versatility and portability of the 701 Profiles. I also find that it's easier to deburr the blade during the sharpening process. Sure it takes more time to do it that way but if you want your serrated edges to perform the way they did when you first got them from the factory then the Profiles will do that with some patience and a steady hand.

[Monkeywrangler]

I am not skilled at sharpening the SE blades but am getting a little better practicing working out the nicks in my kids combo edge multitools withteh Sharpmaker...
Still, I need lots of practice, and not owning a SE bladed knife myself makes it harder to learn. I did however, recently acquire a user-Taz salt. Not a SE, but the hawkbill does make for a learning curve on the Sharpmaker. I think the edge on it was reground by someone with an unsteady hand from the looks of it... I think it will be a good blade to learn on, and hopefully some of that skill will transfer into SE sharpening ability!

[xceptnl]

With so much talk about the 701 set being so useful for reverse S, hawkbill and serrated knives I wonder why the profile set was discontinued, but the profile stones are available separate?

[jackknifeh]

You can probably still get the profile stones on ebay and places like that. You may be able to trade for them on bladeforums.com. They work great on recurve plain edge knives. The recurve stone by DMT has also been discontinued. I have one and it is a GREAT tool for recurves. I used it on the Aligner sharpener and it is great. Clamping the blade properly was also a problem I had with some blades. That is one reason I got an Edge Pro. The EP will sharpen recurve plain edges with no problem at all. If the recurve isn't to drastic the 1" wide stones work fine. For blades with a lot of curve they have 1/2" wide stones that work perfectly perfect. :) I also got some of DMT's flexi-sharp coarse and carved a block of wood the same as the fine grit recurve stone and glued the flexi-sharp to the wood. The Flexi-sharp isn't as "flexi" as it sounds. It's actually pretty stiff so you would need some very good glue. Actually I had to bend the stuff so it was the correct shape before gluing. You also need to be careful because as you are bending it it might crease all of a sudden. If you call DMT thay will sell you pieces of flexi-sharp larger than the small pieces they have on web sites. Or they used to anyway.

There are several ways to sharpen plain edge recurve knives with ease. If you get into the recurve serrated edges I think the serrated edge methods would be the same if the edge were standard or recurve. I know of a couple of ways to sharpen serrated edges but don't have the experience with them to be good at it.

[JD Spydo]

With so much talk about the 701 set being so useful for reverse S, hawkbill and serrated knives I wonder why the profile set was discontinued, but the profile stones are available separate?

I was told that the General ( Sal Glesser) himself said that the Goldenstone and Duckfoot can do anything that the 701 Profiles can do. I have both of those units along with the 701 Profiles and I still like to use the 701 Profiles better because of size, portability and the fact that I'm already skilled in the use of the Profiles.

Now I've used the Goldenstone and Duckfoot units on a few small sharpening jobs just for curiosity but I'm still learning the Goldenstone and Duckfoot. Personally I thought it was regretful that they discontinued the 701 Profiles. But knowing Spyderco I'm willing to bet that there is either something better coming down the pipeline or they feel that the tools they have for sale now are adequate for the job.

You can still find a few of the 701 Profiles on dealer's shelves. A friend of mine told me 2 weeks ago that he got a set from a very well known knife dealer that is spoken of here on the forum a lot. So I'm sure if you want a set you can find them just by doing an internet search or inquiring around.

[xceptnl]

I was told that the General ( Sal Glesser) himself said that the Goldenstone and Duckfoot can do anything that the 701 Profiles can do. I have both of those units along with the 701 Profiles and I still like to use the 701 Profiles better because of size, portability and the fact that I'm already skilled in the use of the Profiles.

Now I've used the Goldenstone and Duckfoot units on a few small sharpening jobs just for curiosity but I'm still learning the Goldenstone and Duckfoot. Personally I thought it was regretful that they discontinued the 701 Profiles. But knowing Spyderco I'm willing to bet that there is either something better coming down the pipeline or they feel that the tools they have for sale now are adequate for the job.

You can still find a few of the 701 Profiles on dealer's shelves. A friend of mine told me 2 weeks ago that he got a set from a very well known knife dealer that is spoken of here on the forum a lot. So I'm sure if you want a set you can find them just by doing an internet search or inquiring around.

I actually found a dealer, but they were sold out of the 701s as of yesterday... interestingly enough, they have the 702s in stock still.

[Josh623]

I use the weps for recurves... Works great with traditional stock diamond stones. :-) but it does cost some money for sure :-(

[BigBill5953]

I used a Sharpmaker with coarse, fine, and ultra fine stones last night to sharpen my Spyderedge Dodo and it worked great! I thought it would have been much more challenging to sharpen but it was one of the easiest knives I've sharpened yet. I don't dread sharpening any of my other Spyderedge Spydies now that the Dodo was fairly easy to sharpen.

[JD Spydo]

Well when it comes to sharpening methods there is a completely different strategy you must use on each edge type (PE & SE). The serrated Hawkbill and Reverse S blades can be sharpened just like any other serrated blade. Being that I use the 701 Profile set I do them either one scallop or one spike at a time. It is time consuming but the results are worth it if you have the patience. Today I'll be touching up 2 serrated blades while I'm watching a couple of NFL games.

One issue I have on Hawkbills and Reverse S blades is the "TIP" of the blade. Particularly on Hawkbills the TIP is a project all by itself. But I'm coming to the conclusion that most blade tips require a certain degree of special attention. To me the TIP is very important on both blade types because a really sharp TIP is the difference between a really efficient working blade or one that you struggle with. Again I'll go with the 701 Profile, Goldenstone & Duckfoot instead of the 204 Sharpmaker. I plan on doing some experimenting with the Goldenstone and Duckfoot today while I watch the Cowboys take out the Eagles