I have a 'heretical' question to Bram and others:
Are there any plans for an improvement of the existing Gunting?
For example, a new steel (S30V, BG42, ...),
or ...
Question is heretical, because it seems that the Gunting is very, very good ( I still do not own one, but handled one in Munich, last December).
Sub_question: any particular reason to choose CPM 440V for the MBC blade steel?
Best regards,
Franco
Spyderco: NON MULTA SED MULTUM
Gunting improvement?
This topic is interesting. One change I would like to see is a totally black Gunting. I carry my Gunting in a black concealex sheath, and if worn with a black shirt, the shiny blade is very obvious. When I have worn an even larger, but all-black, knife in the same manner, it never gets a second glance from anyone, because it becomes invisible.
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Blade Santa Cruz
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I have lots of little improvements..ROFL..but we need to try to live with the Gunting as is..Like its still a new knife..
and if the numbers show it THEN we can play with the little things...
As for a Black blade one cannot use the current black stuff on the type of steel..CPM440v..SV60 or whatever it is called these days..
WE are looking for a coating that will not be too hot to put on for the steel itself..like ruin the temper..
You could always have your personal knife blade bead blasted with glass bead ,,#4 I think would do fine..
But you cannot coat the blade..its NOT ATS 34- or 55 which WILL take the heat of the coating..
CPM440V..old name..is great steel..
it retains an edge..its really great cutting steel..
thank you for caring enough to thnk of changes to improve the breed..
Bram
and if the numbers show it THEN we can play with the little things...
As for a Black blade one cannot use the current black stuff on the type of steel..CPM440v..SV60 or whatever it is called these days..
WE are looking for a coating that will not be too hot to put on for the steel itself..like ruin the temper..
You could always have your personal knife blade bead blasted with glass bead ,,#4 I think would do fine..
But you cannot coat the blade..its NOT ATS 34- or 55 which WILL take the heat of the coating..
CPM440V..old name..is great steel..
it retains an edge..its really great cutting steel..
thank you for caring enough to thnk of changes to improve the breed..
Bram
hmm you carry it in a black holster and you say the blade..which must be the only exposed section the ramp..is too obvious?
hmm Never had a problem..
I carry a RED or BLUE one and people miss it completely..and they are in matching holsters
probably cause I'm not aware of it on my belt and neither are they because I'm not aware..
its a mind thing...
bram
hmm Never had a problem..
I carry a RED or BLUE one and people miss it completely..and they are in matching holsters
probably cause I'm not aware of it on my belt and neither are they because I'm not aware..
its a mind thing...
bram
Hi Bram.
Not so much an improvement as a question.
Why did you decide to put the compression lock release lever on that side ?
I have other compression lock knives, all with the release on the other side and there is no hint that the locking lever will accidentally get pushed.
The only difference I can see is that it makes closing one hand more difficult. But then again this isn't really a biggy as the Gunting is about the only knife I own where closing it one handed is of practically no importance.
Just curious.
Walk softly, carry a big stick.
Not so much an improvement as a question.
Why did you decide to put the compression lock release lever on that side ?
I have other compression lock knives, all with the release on the other side and there is no hint that the locking lever will accidentally get pushed.
The only difference I can see is that it makes closing one hand more difficult. But then again this isn't really a biggy as the Gunting is about the only knife I own where closing it one handed is of practically no importance.
Just curious.
Walk softly, carry a big stick.
One has to look at this as a true MBC blade..not it's an EDC..
no matter if it makes it to EDC for some..and its not an EDC that plays @ MBC..
Selfdefense and combat are filled with subtle variations on a theme..
As with Spanish fencing, as with Filipino bladed arts, the subtlety of the movements is much more important than it might seem at first...
The Gunting compression lock work's with no movement or disengagement from a user position...
A child makes a fist by squeezing its thumb over to its fingers..we have to teach people to drop their thumb to make a fist..
that's one of the hardest and most discussed things in teaching martial arts..the art of making a fist...
If one purposefully just squeezes one's thumb over...one disengages the lock..
it's a perpendicular motion to the line of play..impossible to do accidentally...
yet the user hand is still in the control or natural grip position..
as the blade disengages from the lock, resting on one's index finger, then
immediate re-opening can occur from:
1) inertia snap-partial open
2) traditional Spyderco thumb opening-partial open to it closed
3) Kin-Op- it closed
If complete closing is required or desired:
the handle and knife rotate into the standard Spyderco SHO opening position within one's line of vision..
With the comp[ression lock on the other side one's grip must be released. the knife must be rotated away from your vision..the blade closes to the outside of one's fingers..or one piches the lock release holding the knife in a tenuous "pinch"grip...
Both ways work fine for an EDC tool..
For an MBC tool the tool must never be released from your grip...
a subtle but major difference in concept..
I spent time with orthopedic surgeons, Chiropractors and assorted other therapists to find which way was most natural and ergonomic and balanced it with my views on MBC...
I know others do not share my view..
but others also do not share my feeling nor usage experience either..
You must feel the flow...
thank you for asking about the lock and my views..
be safe..
Bram
no matter if it makes it to EDC for some..and its not an EDC that plays @ MBC..
Selfdefense and combat are filled with subtle variations on a theme..
As with Spanish fencing, as with Filipino bladed arts, the subtlety of the movements is much more important than it might seem at first...
The Gunting compression lock work's with no movement or disengagement from a user position...
A child makes a fist by squeezing its thumb over to its fingers..we have to teach people to drop their thumb to make a fist..
that's one of the hardest and most discussed things in teaching martial arts..the art of making a fist...
If one purposefully just squeezes one's thumb over...one disengages the lock..
it's a perpendicular motion to the line of play..impossible to do accidentally...
yet the user hand is still in the control or natural grip position..
as the blade disengages from the lock, resting on one's index finger, then
immediate re-opening can occur from:
1) inertia snap-partial open
2) traditional Spyderco thumb opening-partial open to it closed
3) Kin-Op- it closed
If complete closing is required or desired:
the handle and knife rotate into the standard Spyderco SHO opening position within one's line of vision..
With the comp[ression lock on the other side one's grip must be released. the knife must be rotated away from your vision..the blade closes to the outside of one's fingers..or one piches the lock release holding the knife in a tenuous "pinch"grip...
Both ways work fine for an EDC tool..
For an MBC tool the tool must never be released from your grip...
a subtle but major difference in concept..
I spent time with orthopedic surgeons, Chiropractors and assorted other therapists to find which way was most natural and ergonomic and balanced it with my views on MBC...
I know others do not share my view..
but others also do not share my feeling nor usage experience either..
You must feel the flow...
thank you for asking about the lock and my views..
be safe..
Bram
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aero_student
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- Location: Folsom, CA, USA, Earth USA
Thanks for replying Bram.
Just shows how old habits can fog new ideas. ( I almost feal foolish for mentioning this). Because all my other compression locks have been on the other side, I have always disengaged them with the side of the thumb, and being a creature of habit that's what I was trying to do with the Gunting, only thumb doesn't work so well that way. It's only when I canted the thumb over and opened it with the tip of the thumb that it worked just fine, and I see what you mean about the Gunting always facing forward.
Like I said it wasn't a concern because for me this is an MBC only knife, and if I ever do have to open it, then closing it is going to be right down on my list of priorities.
That's a wicked ramp it has there. There's little doubt that it can be used for control or offence.
Walk softly, carry a big stick.
Just shows how old habits can fog new ideas. ( I almost feal foolish for mentioning this). Because all my other compression locks have been on the other side, I have always disengaged them with the side of the thumb, and being a creature of habit that's what I was trying to do with the Gunting, only thumb doesn't work so well that way. It's only when I canted the thumb over and opened it with the tip of the thumb that it worked just fine, and I see what you mean about the Gunting always facing forward.
Like I said it wasn't a concern because for me this is an MBC only knife, and if I ever do have to open it, then closing it is going to be right down on my list of priorities.
That's a wicked ramp it has there. There's little doubt that it can be used for control or offence.
Walk softly, carry a big stick.
Yog: On the ahem wrong sided compression lock...ROFL..oops the opposite sided one...if you use your thumb in the same bio mechanical way as doing a liner lock.. then you have to rotate the knife out of action..blade swings clockwise into the top'back of your fingers..
When I brought this up..I was shown the pinch release..another method as I stated previously which is an extremely poor position within the flow of combat..
IF one is using the tool..one escalates up..the release on the Gunting allows for de-escalation within the flow as well..or to move back to short stem impact rather than long stem...
If you do security or LEO work up flow and down flow are important..
and sometimes the sheer pleasure of hitting short stemmed makes it cool to close it down and really go for it...
be safe..
Bram
PS; I was told that boron Carbide is being checked out..its supposedly a low temp coating in comparison..its a flat grey not black..
Maurader: thanks!! Spydie is checking it out!because all the new CPM high end steels need low temp coatings.
When I brought this up..I was shown the pinch release..another method as I stated previously which is an extremely poor position within the flow of combat..
IF one is using the tool..one escalates up..the release on the Gunting allows for de-escalation within the flow as well..or to move back to short stem impact rather than long stem...
If you do security or LEO work up flow and down flow are important..
and sometimes the sheer pleasure of hitting short stemmed makes it cool to close it down and really go for it...
be safe..
Bram
PS; I was told that boron Carbide is being checked out..its supposedly a low temp coating in comparison..its a flat grey not black..
Maurader: thanks!! Spydie is checking it out!because all the new CPM high end steels need low temp coatings.
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aero_student
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Hi Bram
So far my experience with the coating is on my spydercard. It is kept in my wallet in a very accessable but hidden spot. The accumulation of moisture there caused some rust spots on it before I had it coated, so I properly cleaned and sharpened it and sent it in. It is a rather flat dark grey color. I was told the color it would appear as would depend on the way the surface was finished. I am told that it looks even better on highly polished steel as opposed to the matte finish on my spydie card. I remember Sal said a while ago that they did do some corrosive comparison tests with it on the spydercard and it provided very significant improvement. It is also extremely hard and tough. Bodycote said it was in the upper 90's on the Rc scale. It is also very slick when both surfaces in contact have been coated with it. I have not lost any gripping ability, very important as this was meant to be a last ditch self defense knife.
So far my experience with the coating is on my spydercard. It is kept in my wallet in a very accessable but hidden spot. The accumulation of moisture there caused some rust spots on it before I had it coated, so I properly cleaned and sharpened it and sent it in. It is a rather flat dark grey color. I was told the color it would appear as would depend on the way the surface was finished. I am told that it looks even better on highly polished steel as opposed to the matte finish on my spydie card. I remember Sal said a while ago that they did do some corrosive comparison tests with it on the spydercard and it provided very significant improvement. It is also extremely hard and tough. Bodycote said it was in the upper 90's on the Rc scale. It is also very slick when both surfaces in contact have been coated with it. I have not lost any gripping ability, very important as this was meant to be a last ditch self defense knife.
Yes..Peter and I were sent a Spyder Card as an example..it was a dullish greyish color..I guess bead blasting would have made the blade a deeper battleship grey..but it makes it as some say prone to rust..
hmmtake care of your tool..//oops bad attitude..
Several agencies wanted FLAT BLACK.. something that's very awkward if your super protective coating removes the temper from the blade you are trying to coat, protect and make it "tactical"...
and the boron coating as is was not approved by the color rating..
I hope that we find something that meets everyone's expectations..
maybe it will become blacker ????
thanks for all your help!
bram
hmmtake care of your tool..//oops bad attitude..
Several agencies wanted FLAT BLACK.. something that's very awkward if your super protective coating removes the temper from the blade you are trying to coat, protect and make it "tactical"...
and the boron coating as is was not approved by the color rating..
I hope that we find something that meets everyone's expectations..
maybe it will become blacker ????
thanks for all your help!
bram
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aero_student
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- Location: Folsom, CA, USA, Earth USA
The only mods I can think of to the existing design would be:
1: Put a better detent on the compression lock. For a blade that heavy and with that obvious profile, the ramp detent doesn't do a good enough job of keeping the blade closed. A ball-bearing-style detent IMO would work much better. This shouldn't affect the ease of flick-opening by enough to worry.
2: Re-think the opening hole. As it is, it feels very unnatural compared to other spydies, especially when the blade is almost fully opened. Move it down out of the cusp a little, and it would feel much more comfortable. Holding the closed knife, I understand why it's placed where it is (put your index finger in it, place your thumb flat against the scale, and act like you're poking with your index finger), but, as flickable as it is, I'd be hard-pressed to explain to an LEO that it's not a flick knife when it's unnatural and difficult to open it with the <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>hole.
1: Put a better detent on the compression lock. For a blade that heavy and with that obvious profile, the ramp detent doesn't do a good enough job of keeping the blade closed. A ball-bearing-style detent IMO would work much better. This shouldn't affect the ease of flick-opening by enough to worry.
2: Re-think the opening hole. As it is, it feels very unnatural compared to other spydies, especially when the blade is almost fully opened. Move it down out of the cusp a little, and it would feel much more comfortable. Holding the closed knife, I understand why it's placed where it is (put your index finger in it, place your thumb flat against the scale, and act like you're poking with your index finger), but, as flickable as it is, I'd be hard-pressed to explain to an LEO that it's not a flick knife when it's unnatural and difficult to open it with the <img src="spyder.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle border=0>hole.