Two NEW knife lock designs!

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spyderedge
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Two NEW knife lock designs!

Postby spyderedge » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:18 pm

As far as I am aware of, both of thees locks are not being used. One is a modified lockback/tri ad lock. And the other is a modified frame lock lock that I call the Pin loc

The modified frame lock that I call the Pin loc: [ATTACH]20976[/ATTACH] This pin fits where the liner moves over fits into the corresponding hole in the blade's tang. No chance for up and down play.
Attachments
pin loc 2.png
Pin loc 1.jpg

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Postby spyderedge » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:26 pm

The modified lockback: [ATTACH]20978[/ATTACH] The pin fits into a corresponding curved slot in the frame of the knife. And the pivot for the lockback is oval shape like the tri ad but I forgot to add it in the picture.

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Postby Cheddarnut » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:49 pm

Are these available on actual knives? Ps ur link is dead.
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Postby Chipped Karambit » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:03 pm

link is dead but seems interesting. Question is how well will pin hold during stress

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Postby Donut » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:30 pm

I'm not sure the pin lock would work so great. Having a pressure point off center of the lock bar seems like a greater chance of the lock bar bending or twisting.

Also, since metal bends, I think it will develop play. You'd think you could make a slope down the cylinder so that as the metal wears, the pin will slide further into the blade's hole.

Interested to see your modified lock back.
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Postby The Deacon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:15 pm

Unless I'm missing something, it seems the pin loc would be an either/or proposition. You can't have the front face of the lockbar work as a conventional framelock and have tang extending back past that point for the pin to engage. If it just uses the pin, there seems to be little to prevent the long lock arm from wiggling up and down a bit.
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Postby w3tnz » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Yeah if the tang was extended to accept the pin, that woud stop the lock bar from travelling over and actually locking? The lock bar needs to wedge behind the tang so I dont quite get it, would this also require hyper extension of the lock bar to clear the pin when unlocking? And if your modifying existing locks they probably woudint be considered "new" locks.
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Postby Evil D » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:34 pm

The tolerance required to make the pin lock work properly is going to be so precise that it won't work. You would have to change the pin to some kind of wedge shape that fits into a slot so there could be some self adjustment quality to it. Everything would have to line up so precisely with the pin in order for it to fit tight enough to prevent blade play that the cost to make the entire lock/pivot that perfect would be more than you could charge for the knife to make a profit.
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Postby bh49 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:59 pm

Evil D wrote:The tolerance required to make the pin lock work properly is going to be so precise that it won't work. You would have to change the pin to some kind of wedge shape that fits into a slot so there could be some self adjustment quality to it. Everything would have to line up so precisely with the pin in order for it to fit tight enough to prevent blade play that the cost to make the entire lock/pivot that perfect would be more than you could charge for the knife to make a profit.
+1
Another option, which would allow to loose tolerance a bit is to male a hole few thousands of an inch bigger, but in this case some knives will be great, but some will have play. If you mean tapped pin by wedge, this will develop play with use.
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Postby sal » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:16 pm

We used a similar system on Bob Terzuola's slip joint. Had a ball bearuing instead of a pin. A pin has limitations in self adjustment. that's why most pin locks use tapered pins.

sal

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Postby angusW » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:22 pm

It's great to see people coming up with new ideas for knives but you're putting up your ideas on a public domain. Someone is going to take your idea and patent it.
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Postby spyderedge » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:01 pm

The Deacon wrote:Unless I'm missing something, it seems the pin loc would be an either/or proposition. You can't have the front face of the lockbar work as a conventional framelock and have tang extending back past that point for the pin to engage. If it just uses the pin, there seems to be little to prevent the long lock arm from wiggling up and down a bit.
It only uses the pin. The pin and the stop pin would be the only thing holding the blade from up and down play.

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Postby spyderedge » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:03 pm

angusW wrote:It's great to see people coming up with new ideas for knives but you're putting up your ideas on a public domain. Someone is going to take your idea and patent it.
I forgot to mention, this will be removed in the next 48 hours. Just for the "insiders" so see. I will send a latter to spyderco to see what they think.

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Postby spyderedge » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:03 pm

Cheddarnut wrote:Are these available on actual knives? Ps ur link is dead.
They are not currently being used.

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Postby spyderedge » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:07 pm

w3tnz wrote:Yeah if the tang was extended to accept the pin, that woud stop the lock bar from travelling over and actually locking? The lock bar needs to wedge behind the tang so I dont quite get it, would this also require hyper extension of the lock bar to clear the pin when unlocking? And if your modifying existing locks they probably woudint be considered "new" locks.
It acts similar to the tri ad lock. There is a corresponding grove into the liner for the pin in the lockback. When the lockback moves when there is negative force onto the blade the pin hits the hardened steel liners it stops it moving, thus stopping the blade from moving

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Postby spyderedge » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:09 pm

sal wrote:We used a similar system on Bob Terzuola's slip joint. Had a ball bearuing instead of a pin. A pin has limitations in self adjustment. that's why most pin locks use tapered pins.

sal
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Postby The Deacon » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:13 am

Spyderhead wrote:It only uses the pin. The pin and the stop pin would be the only thing holding the blade from up and down play.
The what's to prevent pressure on the spine from moving the lock arm? I realize the gap between the bar and the rest of the frame won't be anywhere near as wide as in your drawing, but there will be a gap. Which makes me think it would be more prone to vertical play than a conventional RIL.
Spyderhead wrote:I forgot to mention, this will be removed in the next 48 hours. Just for the "insiders" so see. I will send a latter to spyderco to see what they think.
I wish you success but, FWIW, trying to remove all traces of something that's been posted on the internet is generally considered to be an exercise in futility.
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Postby SolidState » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:29 am

FYI, this counts as public disclosure whether you take it down or not. You have 1 year from today to secure a provisional patent before this becomes prior art, that is, if there is anything unpatented here.

Also, most companies prefer you deal with them in private over matters of intellectual property specifics.
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Postby jossta » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:19 pm

The little quote symbol with a + next to it is a multi-quote button.

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Postby jzmtl » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:19 pm

Here is the thing, if you want no play the pin would have to be exact same size as hole on blade, however since the lock arm moves in a radius fashion, an exact sized pin isn't going to fit into the hole (even if it doesn't an exact sized pin is still going to be difficult fit).

SOG revolver use a similar system and the hole had to be slightly oversized to allow the pin to fit in.


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