Nilaka has arrived

[phaust]

Pekka requested that we add a micro bevel on the piece. I put a 30 degree micro bevel on mine and I'm testing. They're pretty hard (61) so I think the problem is too thin. We'll keep testing and keep you informed. right now we're not shipping.

sal

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... !!!!/page3

[chuck_roxas45]

Good thing I didn't buy one of these. If I would have had that edge failure there would be a 10 page bash thread by now. Dodged a bullet there.


Wonder how they will go about changing this? Steel change, HT change, both? They didn't clearly outline the "intended use." I wonder if cutting hard materials is out of the intended capabilities of the knife? I'm not familiar with Pukkos, so I'm flying blind here.

Hehehe we love you CTS but I'd bet your mirror has kiss marks all over the place. :D

[Halfneck]

The poster in that link (hollowdweller) participates on quite a few forums & I trust his opinion. When I handled the prototype at BLADE I wondered if the blade was too thin myself. As I had no intention of getting one, I really put no more thought into it.

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Hehehe we love you CTS but I'd bet your mirror has kiss marks all over the place. :D

Lol!

Hope they get things sorted out, while keeping the original zero grind platform. Always wanted to try one of those.

[JudasD]

Just curious if anyone knows if the fixed blade puukko has the same issues? Is the blade not the same?
Doesn't putting a micro bevel on this knife negate the idea of zero grind?

Thanks,
JD

[rodloos]

Just curious if anyone knows if the fixed blade puukko has the same issues? Is the blade not the same?
Doesn't putting a micro bevel on this knife negate the idea of zero grind?

Thanks,
JD

I've had no such issues with my fixed Puukko, it looks more like a regular scandi grind to me. I haven't cut any wires or ironwood with mine :) but making shavings for fire prep etc with pine, cedar, oak and pecan I've had no issues.

[Blerv]

Just curious if anyone knows if the fixed blade puukko has the same issues? Is the blade not the same?
Doesn't putting a micro bevel on this knife negate the idea of zero grind?

Thanks,
JD

I don't own either but the Puukko and Nilakka only share the blade shape and lack of secondary bevel, not the grind. The Puukko has a 5mm thick blade stock that is flat-saber ground to a zero/scandi grind. The Nilakka is a 4.5mm thick blade stock that is completely flat to a zero/scandi grind with a mild swedge.

Again, based on specs and what I have read the Puukko is more like a shorter/thicker version of the Bushcraft with S30v instead of O1. The Nilakka in it's current state is like a custom folder with the edge angle of a flat razor.

[JudasD]

I don't own either but the Puukko and Nilakka only share the blade shape and lack of secondary bevel, not the grind. The Puukko has a 5mm thick blade stock that is flat-saber ground to a zero/scandi grind. The Nilakka is a 4.5mm thick blade stock that is completely flat to a zero/scandi grind with a mild swedge.

Again, based on specs and what I have read the Puukko is more like a shorter/thicker version of the Bushcraft with S30v instead of O1. The Nilakka in it's current state is like a custom folder with the edge angle of a flat razor.

Thank you for this summary. This is exactly the type of thing i was looking for. Just trying to put the two in perspective.

JD

[Cliff Stamp]

Has anyone handled a custom from the designer. I checked his website and his puukkos have very high grinds, they are not the common very low grinds you see on a Mora, they have to be close to 5 dps. As an aside, blades with very acute edges are not that fragile in general :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6DX83w95Oc

That blade ends up with a 7.5 dps edge which is formed from the primary grind, 10 dps micro-bevel (not visible under 50X magnification, just apex set). It handles :

-cardboard
-pine, hardwood flooring, plywood
-plastic bottles, al bottles
-ropes
-screw ties (heavier than zip ties)

and only takes damage to the apex on food cans. In fact in the video it was not sharpened after the last round of cutting so it still has the damaged edge which is barely visible on video.

[Tally-ho]

Has anyone handled a custom from the designer.

DagueHaubert on a french forum purchased one. It is a custom version of the Nilakka but DagueHaubert didn't comment about the blade, he only said that it is made with RWL steel that is probably RWL34 steel. I don't know if he purchased it to use it or for "collecting" but I can ask him.

http://forum.neoczen.org/viewtopic.php? ... 0#p1077260

In case that pictures could only be seen by registered users of the forum only, here 2 of them:

[Cliff Stamp]

Thanks, it is RWL-34 which is a P/M version of ATS-34/154CM.

Yeah, look at the grind there, and even on his webpage on the fixed blades same thing, ultra high grinds, at least twice what you see on a Mora.

[psychophipps]

Man, this has got to be keep the folks at Spyderco up at night. All those steel, tooling, heat treat, and machining costs right out the flippin' window. Talk about the baby going out with the bathwater. Really sorry to hear about the hassles you guys are having here. Good news is we all know that Spyderco is going to fall all over themselves to make it right for everyone that got a bum knife and lets the company know about it.

Edit: Glad to see that Sal and his compatriots managed to find a relatively inexpensive fix for the issue!

[Pekka]

Dear friends

I'm not right person say anything about Spyderco puukko or Nilakka design.

But I hope that You understund that 'Mora' is not a puukko. Mora's blade is traditional Swedish design. Traditional puukko's desing is diffrent, it's traditional high, about 17-20 degrees, we call it diamond (or salmiak -in Finnish language) cross cut. Swedish and Norwegian design 'allways more then 20 degrees, desing is flatt steel with grinding edge. It's just different think, I do not try to tell that it's better.

Sorry my bad English.

Yours.
Pekka Tuominen

[Blerv]

Thank you for commenting Pekka. Your designs are terrific :) .

[Ankerson]

Good thing I didn't buy one of these. If I would have had that edge failure there would be a 10 page bash thread by now. Dodged a bullet there.


Wonder how they will go about changing this? Steel change, HT change, both? They didn't clearly outline the "intended use." I wonder if cutting hard materials is out of the intended capabilities of the knife? I'm not familiar with Pukkos, so I'm flying blind here.

Don't think it would have been that bad...

From what I read they are grinding them back a little to .010" behind the edge and 15 DPS and that took care of it.

Still VERY thin, but more durable for harder cutting tasks.

[Ankerson]

Has anyone handled a custom from the designer. I checked his website and his puukkos have very high grinds, they are not the common very low grinds you see on a Mora, they have to be close to 5 dps. As an aside, blades with very acute edges are not that fragile in general :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6DX83w95Oc

That blade ends up with a 7.5 dps edge which is formed from the primary grind, 10 dps micro-bevel (not visible under 50X magnification, just apex set). It handles :

-cardboard
-pine, hardwood flooring, plywood
-plastic bottles, al bottles
-ropes
-screw ties (heavier than zip ties)

and only takes damage to the apex on food cans. In fact in the video it was not sharpened after the last round of cutting so it still has the damaged edge which is barely visible on video.

As long as one uses proper technique when cutting as in keeping the spine inline with the edge to minimise side loading those whisper thin edges work very well.

[Cliff Stamp]

As long as one uses proper technique when cutting as in keeping the spine inline with the edge to minimise side loading those whisper thin edges work very well.

Jim, watch the video, this isn't how that knife was used. It is impossible to cut plywood without significant edge loading due to the way it fractured. The point of the video was in fact to use the knife fairly roughly to see when and how it fractured and the only thin which could damage the 7.5 dps edge was cutting food cans.

I have a video uploading now with six different knives used on the same materials, the edge angles are from 5 to 11 dps, I increased the force on the cut up to 70 lbs. There was again no damage on the wood aside from one knife which has always been a problem with the steel from the time it was as-boxed.

There is far too much thickening of edges both in thickness and in angle to compensate for a combination of :

-improper choice of steel
-burned edges in grind
-embrittlement in HT

I would be curious as to how many people daily use their knives for harder work that is shown in that video. I am not saying it is impossible, however when I comment about cutting drywall with a knife and people here start ranting about improper tools and calling cardboard abusive - it is clear that not many are doing it as drywall/cardboard is not nearly as hard to cut as plywood.

[Cliff Stamp]

Traditional puukko's desing is diffrent, it's traditional high, about 17-20 degrees, we call it diamond (or salmiak -in Finnish language) cross cut. Swedish and Norwegian design 'allways more then 20 degrees, desing is flatt steel with grinding edge.

Pekka, what do you mean by "grinding edge".

Beautiful knives on your webpage.

[Pekka]

Pekka, what do you mean by "grinding edge".

Beautiful knives on your webpage.

Cliff, I mean that mora's and traditional Swedish/Norwegian blade cross cut design is similar as those bushcraft-knives, but thinner.