Nilaka has arrived

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:35 pm

VashHash wrote:I think this clearly shows why the general public isn't ready for zero ground blades
No doubt. Hence the clear documentation (I didn't scroll up to read).
jzmtl wrote:Sycamore according to poster, original thread here.
Thanks jzmtl. Pretty bad review on that board of the knife but they are comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure the warning note is still in the box someplace...
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The Deacon
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Postby The Deacon » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:54 pm

Sure seems like Spyderco should put that disclaimer in the online catalog write-up, and the print version too when it comes out. Otherwise, folks buying a folding Pukko with a 4.5mm thick blade might assume it was suited for whittling a stick, even a relatively hard one.
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Postby jzmtl » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:56 pm

Yeah I wonder if this is going to come back and bite Spyderco. Someone just said the edge can bend pushing against fingernail, that's like a straight razor, and you wouldn't even cut paper with one of those.

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Postby VashHash » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:56 pm

the good news is it should be easy to fix with such a thin grind

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Postby yablanowitz » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:36 pm

Cheddarnut wrote:I wonder what the intended uses of this knife would be, as a pukko is a general purpose tool as far as i know, which suggests that it would be put through its paces and not be babied.
As far as I can tell, with the factory edge, folding sushi knife.
Uke wrote:+1

The blurb states that the Nilakka is ideal for 'everyday carry'. Could I use it to take apart cardboard boxes and plastic packaging if I ran into them during my day? Or is this folder specifically for delicate whittling? I've wanted a Nilakka since seeing pics of the prototype from the Amsterdam meet but I'm slightly concerned now that I'd have to baby it for fear of chipping the edge on a staple :(
"Everyday carry" yes, everyday use, no. Nevermind a staple, a clampack would do it in. Delicate whittling is beyond it unless you're talking balsa wood.
Blerv wrote:No doubt. Hence the clear documentation (I didn't scroll up to read).



Thanks jzmtl. Pretty bad review on that board of the knife but they are comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure the warning note is still in the box someplace...
Back in the box after reading. Nowhere on that card does it say "for flesh only", "limited to styrofoam cutting" or any of the other things they probably should have on there.
VashHash wrote:the good news is it should be easy to fix with such a thin grind
Yep. 20° secondary bevel and it works great.
The Deacon wrote:Sure seems like Spyderco should put that disclaimer in the online catalog write-up, and the print version too when it comes out. Otherwise, folks buying a folding Pukko with a 4.5mm thick blade might assume it was suited for whittling a stick, even a relatively hard one.
I really though a puukko should be able to cut basswood. The block I rippled mine's edge on was soft enough to carve with my thumbnail. I've eaten carrots harder than that. I'm no stranger to thin edges. I've done quite a bit of carving with a small fixed blade hollow ground so thin you can flex the edge visibly over your fingernail and never had anything like this happen. The closest I've seen was when I hit a knot carving hard pine with a custom jackknife ground to 0.007" at the back of the 20° edge bevel. Either the heat treatment was messed up while grinding the blades that thin, or 10° included is just beyond S30V's capability.
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Postby DRKBC » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:49 pm

I was sold on the knife when I first saw it but after I thought about it I came to the conclusion it wouldn't really work for me. I am sure it would be great for food prep and the like but for me a blade that thin with not a lot behind it just wouldn't be smart. Still ... one of the coolest looking knives I seen in a while.

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:56 pm

yablanowitz wrote:I really though a puukko should be able to cut basswood. The block I rippled mine's edge on was soft enough to carve with my thumbnail. I've eaten carrots harder than that. I'm no stranger to thin edges. I've done quite a bit of carving with a small fixed blade hollow ground so thin you can flex the edge visibly over your fingernail and never had anything like this happen. The closest I've seen was when I hit a knot carving hard pine with a custom jackknife ground to 0.007" at the back of the 20° edge bevel. Either the heat treatment was messed up while grinding the blades that thin, or 10° included is just beyond S30V's capability.
Hey Yab, I'm assuming that was your review :)

Just based on pics I would assume that blade would be a very gentle carver at best but I wouldn't lean into a Delica very hard either. 10° inclusive is pretty crazy thin no matter what. At least thin enough I could expect the difference between chipping and not dependent on the user, wood, or a bit of both.
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Postby hunterseeker5 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:56 pm

In my humble opinion, a zero grind like that can be nice but really probably shouldn't be on such a high carbide volume steel. S30v just doesn't have the toughness to tolerate it, and as a carbide former the super super sharp edge will burn off extremely quickly anyway leaving you wondering why exactly you have such a thin grind on a less than insanely sharp knife. I'll reserve judgment as I've not actually toyed with that specific knife yet, but I suspect the next iteration of this knife will quietly introduce an additional bevel.

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Postby Brock O Lee » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:10 am

This factory edge is a tribute to the fanboys, who like very gentle carving at best. :)

I am surprised that Spyderco missed the QC and allowed these to exit the factory door like this. In my view, a very fine zero grind like this is a high-risk endeavour, worthy of additional QC. But I'm sure Spyderco will make this right.

It does give a new meaning to the term "bleeding edge" :D
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:32 am

Well, people kept complaining about knives being too thick behind the edge...

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Brock O Lee
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Postby Brock O Lee » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:09 am

chuck_roxas45 wrote:Well, people kept complaining about knives being too thick behind the edge...
Also true! I'm not expecting many these on Tom Krein's doorstep... :)
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Postby Cheddarnut » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:27 am

hunterseeker5 wrote:In my humble opinion, a zero grind like that can be nice but really probably shouldn't be on such a high carbide volume steel. S30v just doesn't have the toughness to tolerate it, and as a carbide former the super super sharp edge will burn off extremely quickly anyway leaving you wondering why exactly you have such a thin grind on a less than insanely sharp knife. I'll reserve judgment as I've not actually toyed with that specific knife yet, but I suspect the next iteration of this knife will quietly introduce an additional bevel.
Or, as u implied, a tougher steel.

Yep, i fell in love with the look of this one too, but as we know, handles are for holdin etc etc.
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Postby Blerv » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:52 am

QC really should have caught that blatant design goal, probably when they inserted the legal disclaimer into the box. "Darned if you do; darned of you don't" right? ;)

S30v is a pretty tough blade steel for being corrosion resistant. For a slicer with the edge angle of a custom I would argue the user and task presents more variables than the inanimate object.

There are people who would adore the equivalent of a folding sushi knife. They aren't all fanboys either...
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Postby phaust » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:48 am

Blerv wrote:QC really should have caught that blatant design goal, probably when they inserted the legal disclaimer into the box. "Darned if you do; darned of you don't" right? ;)

S30v is a pretty tough blade steel for being corrosion resistant. For a slicer with the edge angle of a custom I would argue the user and task presents more variables than the inanimate object.

There are people who would adore the equivalent of a folding sushi knife. They aren't all fanboys either...
All that's well and good--in fact I wasn't interested in the knife much til these reports started coming out and now will probably buy it--but Spyderco calls it a folding puukko, and they say a puukko is a "do-everything tool", so there's some misinformation getting in there through the marketing of the knife. If it was accurately described in the company description, there would be little room for complaint, but it isn't.

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Postby The Deacon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:36 am

yablanowitz wrote:I really though a puukko should be able to cut basswood. The block I rippled mine's edge on was soft enough to carve with my thumbnail. I've eaten carrots harder than that.
I'd agree, I'd expect that from any decent pocketknife.
yablanowitz wrote:Either the heat treatment was messed up while grinding the blades that thin, or 10° included is just beyond S30V's capability.
Given the card, and that your experience was not one isolated case, I would agree.
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Postby Mr Blonde » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:53 am

The few reviews I´ve read so far seem to be pretty consistent, the edge chips and/or folds surprisingly easy. Too bad, I really liked the design I'm curious what Spyderco comments on these failures. I'll hold my order off until a second batch.
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Postby CrimsonTideShooter » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:54 pm

Good thing I didn't buy one of these. If I would have had that edge failure there would be a 10 page bash thread by now. Dodged a bullet there.


Wonder how they will go about changing this? Steel change, HT change, both? They didn't clearly outline the "intended use." I wonder if cutting hard materials is out of the intended capabilities of the knife? I'm not familiar with Pukkos, so I'm flying blind here.

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Postby spyderedge » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:32 pm

(fine print) Cutting anything harder than a thread off your shirt will void the warranty and may be a form of abuse. Thank you for choosing Spyderco.

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Postby Cheddarnut » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:46 pm

Spyderhead wrote:(fine print) Cutting anything harder than a thread off your shirt will void the warranty and may be a form of abuse. Thank you for choosing Spyderco.
Whoa, hold on a sec. What gauge thread are we talking?
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Postby The Deacon » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:01 pm

CrimsonTideShooter wrote:Good thing I didn't buy one of these. If I would have had that edge failure there would be a 10 page bash thread by now. Dodged a bullet there.
Very possibly. Did you ever read the story of the little boy who cried wolf?
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