Tuff not so Tuff...

DRKBC · #41

thelock wrote:Wildsteer WX

That is a mother, a side from bringing along a tourch and just welding your folder into the open position ... that is probably the next best solution.

Blerv · #42

Evil D wrote:I'm curious as to what that might be?

Obviously a knife forged by Dwarven blacksmiths out of a dying star.

DCDesigns wrote:I think a few of you might be missing the point. I kind of have to laugh at those who say I was abusing the knife, because if you saw the size of the sticks I was cutting, youd laugh too.

All the best friend :) Goodluck with having it repaired/replaced. We appreciate you putting it through it's paces early on. I was leaning heavily towards the "fluke" side but personally (nor can anyone) deem an abused product from a properly used one. That's the responsibility of the W&R dept, which I'm certain will side with ya.

dbcad · #43

DEEP breath.......Before posting a rant, and the original post was a bit of a rant, especially the last line, it is always a good idea to get to the root of the problem first.

Evil D · #44

thelock wrote:Wildsteer WX

Yikes. I've read up on that knife but i'm undecided. I've often said that my love of folders is due to the mechanical engineering side of the lock and pivot, but that thing just seems really overly complicated. The only thing i see that makes it any "stronger" than other locks is how the levers prevent the primary spring from coming unlocked. The actual metal to metal contact point that locks the blade doesn't seem any "stronger" than a back lock or Tri-Ad lock to me. Whether it's the strongest folder or not, i don't know but i've seen guys do ridiculously stupid things with a Grayman Satu and it's just a frame lock and it survived to tell the tale. I think for me the cumbersome mechanics of opening and closing it would push me away but if i ever find one for a cheap price i might try it out. The rest of the design doesn't really do much for me.

Cliff Stamp · #45

thelock wrote:Wildsteer WX

I noticed that quite some time ago. After you get it/use it I would appreciate a PM if you ever decide to write about your experiences with it.

thelock · #46

Cliff Stamp wrote:I noticed that quite some time ago. After you get it/use it I would appreciate a PM if you ever decide to write about your experiences with it.

Yes of course! :)

thelock · #47

Evil D wrote:Yikes. I've read up on that knife but i'm undecided. I've often said that my love of folders is due to the mechanical engineering side of the lock and pivot, but that thing just seems really overly complicated. The only thing i see that makes it any "stronger" than other locks is how the levers prevent the primary spring from coming unlocked. The actual metal to metal contact point that locks the blade doesn't seem any "stronger" than a back lock or Tri-Ad lock to me. Whether it's the strongest folder or not, i don't know but i've seen guys do ridiculously stupid things with a Grayman Satu and it's just a frame lock and it survived to tell the tale. I think for me the cumbersome mechanics of opening and closing it would push me away but if i ever find one for a cheap price i might try it out. The rest of the design doesn't really do much for me.

There is a 30 minute video of a guy abusing it on youtube, things like batoning through a car door with it and it didn't get any blade play, you can tell because he brings it very close to the camera, at the end of the video my mouth dropped wide open, I knew I had to have it. The Tri-Ad lock is very good, but you still get a lot of vertical play after hard use and there is always the fact that only cold steel uses it and you have to deal with aus-8a. I just don't trust the frame lock, sorry but I have seen too many fail, there are better options.

Evil D · #48

thelock wrote:There is a 30 minute video of a guy abusing it on youtube, things like batoning through a car door with it and it didn't get any blade play, you can tell because he brings it very close to the camera, at the end of the video my mouth dropped wide open, I knew I had to have it. The Tri-Ad lock is very good, but you still get a lot of vertical play after hard use and there is always the fact that only cold steel uses it and you have to deal with aus-8a. I just don't trust the frame lock, sorry but I have seen too many fail, there are better options.

Yeah i've seen the video...it's pretty ridiculous. I'd love to handle one in person, i'm waiting to hopefully catch one at a blade show or maybe even the local knife shop. I'm curious about lock wear since it doesn't seem to have any room for self adjustment, and no matter how strong and tight that thing locks there will always be wear when there's a metal to metal contact. It also looks like it has a lot of sharp edges and points all over it which make me wonder if all that strength matters if it's too uncomfortable to use for long periods of time bare handed. Still, i've seen them online for ~$170 which doesn't sound too bad if it's really all that. I don't know much about the X46Cr13 steel it uses, but i guess if it can stab and baton a car door and not chip too bad then it's good enough for the intended use.

thelock · #49

Evil D wrote:Yeah i've seen the video...it's pretty ridiculous. I'd love to handle one in person, i'm waiting to hopefully catch one at a blade show or maybe even the local knife shop. I'm curious about lock wear since it doesn't seem to have any room for self adjustment, and no matter how strong and tight that thing locks there will always be wear when there's a metal to metal contact. It also looks like it has a lot of sharp edges and points all over it which make me wonder if all that strength matters if it's too uncomfortable to use for long periods of time bare handed. Still, i've seen them online for ~$170 which doesn't sound too bad if it's really all that. I don't know much about the X46Cr13 steel it uses, but i guess if it can stab and baton a car door and not chip too bad then it's good enough for the intended use.

i could't agree more. The last time I was this excited about a knife was when I first saw the Szabo folder.

Cliff Stamp · #50

thelock wrote:The Tri-Ad lock is very good, but you still get a lot of vertical play after hard use ...

Any links or was that personal experience?

chuck_roxas45 · #51

Cliff Stamp wrote:Any links or was that personal experience?

He personally experienced watching a youtube vid.

Popsickle · #52

Ok.... i am a Tuff owner and love my mine. My tuff has in fact been used and ABUSED and has not failed. I have chopped branches and limbs much larger than what the OP is describing as well as pry a wide variety of things that no folder should be able to live through.... but it did. As far as you guys bashing the OP for something happening that should not have happened.... shame on you!!!! This is clearly a case of something not being quite right in the folder. IT something i believe spyderco will stand behind and absolutely help you out with dc. Also, when chopping i didnt have to hold the handle tight to keep pressure on the lock as it was already very strong.

nullity · #53

Tuff knife or weak knife, it's up to the user to know the knife's limit.

You can't blame the knife for an ignorant user's poor decisions.

thelock · #54

Cliff Stamp wrote:Any links or was that personal experience?

Personal experience.

Chuck_roxas45 I am uploading a video and will post it here soon just to prove you that I am not lying, about this and the para 2 s30v matter.

vivi · #55

Hmm, I've chopped similar sized limbs with Millies, Police 3 and a full size Manix and the worst I've seen happen is my amillie's pivot would loosen a pinch.

angusW · #56

Sorry to hear about your knife. I'm sure Spyderco will fix/replace it for you. I'm not to keen on frame locks myself but that's not based on fact or use.

jabba359 · #57

nullity wrote:Tuff knife or weak knife, it's up to the user to know the knife's limit.

You can't blame the knife for an ignorant user's poor decisions.

And mild chopping of small branches should be well within the limits of this knife. The user and OP is far from ignorant and I didn't infer any poor decisions being made. As it was noted earlier in this thread, CPM 3V's biggest strength is it's impact toughness. If the knife wasn't designed for at least mild impacts, then there is no reason to use this steel in a blade.

thelock · #58

Was not worth it.

nullity · #59

jabba359 wrote:And mild chopping of small branches should be well within the limits of this knife. The user and OP is far from ignorant and I didn't infer any poor decisions being made. As it was noted earlier in this thread, CPM 3V's biggest strength is it's impact toughness. If the knife wasn't designed for at least mild impacts, then there is no reason to use this steel in a blade.

The OP inadventintly bent the lockbar too far outward.
Chopping puts pressure on the stop-pin, and not the lockbar, if done "correctly".

I am seeing user error, plain and simple.

Without more information there's no way to know. Pictures, maybe?

Minibear453 · #60

Chopping does put stress on the stop pin. Yet, he described that it was upon pulling the knife out that the lock failed. When the knife is being pulled out, the stress is on the lock. I do not believe that this pulling action should have caused the knife to fail. Maybe it constitutes abuse, yet that decision is up to Spyderco, and in my opinion, it should not be abuse. I've batoned folders right through logs, and they held up. Some of them were even ones that I made, with tolerances far below that of Spyderco's. Even if the lock was over bent, the fact that it still engages (I'm assuming it still engages from the OP's post), means that it should still hold regardless. A frame or liner lock does not depend upon the bending of the titanium to hold the knife open, otherwise they would have to be too strong to be disengaged with one's hand. When the spine is compressed, it is the friction between the blade tang and the lock that keeps the knife open, not the strength of the spring that holds the titanium in place.