Tuff not so Tuff...

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Sequimite
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Postby Sequimite » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:38 pm

I presume you were using an unusual grip that was not keeping pressure against the lock bar? Not saying that this should have happened anyway but the fact that a normal grip is a fail safe in keeping it locked is one of the things I like about frame locks.
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Cheddarnut
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Postby Cheddarnut » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:51 pm

DCDesigns wrote:spewing negativity in public? Listen buddy, i have done no such thing. I merely said the un-sensationalized events of what happened when my own personal Tuff failed. If you cant stand someone saying anything negative, that is your issue.
Id have to agree. This forum needs to include experiences that are not censored towards the bias of fanboys, in order to provide the full gamut of possibilities of experience with a given product. The tuff, as far as i understand it, was designed to chop, hence the 3v blade. Was this user opinion or empirically stated by spyderco? I cannot say. I can say we talk alot, and people without enough experience to argue what they read are bound to believe threads building up knives in the image of the poster. If user opinions are revoked as soon as there is an issue in the real world, it makes us sound like unaccountable hippocritical gossip queens.
"...is cabbage a better blue than cars that sing?" C.S.

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DCDesigns
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Postby DCDesigns » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:03 pm

I think a few of you might be missing the point. I kind of have to laugh at those who say I was abusing the knife, because if you saw the size of the sticks I was cutting, youd laugh too. Evil D- The sticks you cut with that military are bigger.

I think yall got the wrong Idea when I said chop, and got a picture in your heads of nutnfancy swinging away at something. If I put that much force into it I could have cut through 5 of those sticks. "chop cut" might be more accurate. (didnt know what else to call it since I start out of the medium) once its seated I can usually push into the stressed fibres of the tree and twist the stick free. I too have saws and hatchets, and if I really want to cut wood I fire up my 10 horse power Husquvarna 395 with the 5 foot bar. I assure you, with all the extra energy spent on beefing up this knife, I am not pressing it into anything it shouldnt be doing. My $30 tenacious used to handle the dog stick task flawlessly... When you hold the Tuff in your hand, it feels like it is capable of SO much more. And with the weight of the knife, performing said chop-cut is really quite effortless.

To be clear, I am not hating on the knife, I still think it is a great design. The purpose of this thread was to describe an incident and potentially a momentary lapse in quality control. I am quite sure I got a knife that is out of spec. It is one of the collectors models howes got in really early, so they may not have gotten all the bugs out.

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Postby Cliff Stamp » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:04 pm

In regards to the claims of abuse, wrong tool, etc. there is absolutely no excuse at all for this type of accidental release, nor it is any way sensible to call small wrist snaps with this knife into branches abusive, it is completely ridiculous.

This is a knife with a 3V blade which has ONE critical selling point which is an impact toughness comparable in class to shock steels, the materials which are used in Jackhammer bits. To put this type of steel in a knife and the complain if someone popped off a tree limb is absurd.

As well I can easily take this knife and simply cut with it into binding materials and put far more force and stress on the lock that the OP did with the trimming. Plus I can do that kind of trimming with any number of extremely inexpensive folding knives.

The knife failed, that should not be the expected or tolerated behavior and there is no benefit from attacking the OP, method or excusing such behavior.

Ed did a great job on the design, the knife looks great, reviews on it are in general extremely positive, no one however benefits from excusing the occasional flaw.

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DCDesigns
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Postby DCDesigns » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:06 pm

Sequimite wrote:I presume you were using an unusual grip that was not keeping pressure against the lock bar? Not saying that this should have happened anyway but the fact that a normal grip is a fail safe in keeping it locked is one of the things I like about frame locks.
I wouldnt say it was that unusual. I wasnt using the choil, I had my thumb on the ramp, and was gripping the body of the knife normally. The lock failed when I lifted up, so I may not have had much force on the lockbar then. And it failed again when I pressed on the spine with no pressure on the lockbar.

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DCDesigns
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Postby DCDesigns » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:07 pm

Cliff Stamp wrote:In regards to the claims of abuse, wrong tool, etc. there is absolutely no excuse at all for this type of accidental release, nor it is any way sensible to call small wrist snaps with this knife into branches abusive, it is completely ridiculous.

This is a knife with a 3V blade which has ONE critical selling point which is an impact toughness comparable in class to shock steels, the materials which are used in Jackhammer bits. To put this type of steel in a knife and the complain if someone popped off a tree limb is absurd.

As well I can easily take this knife and simply cut with it into binding materials and put far more force and stress on the lock that the OP did with the trimming. Plus I can do that kind of trimming with any number of extremely inexpensive folding knives.

The knife failed, that should not be the expected or tolerated behavior and there is no benefit from attacking the OP, method or excusing such behavior.

Ed did a great job on the design, the knife looks great, reviews on it are in general extremely positive, no one however benefits from excusing the occasional flaw.
Thanks for coming to my defense man, lol, I too felt the claims of abuse were a bit ridiculous.

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IG-88
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Postby IG-88 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:11 pm

APS wrote:Can you please point out where Spyderco has said that it's a hard use knife built like a tank. This is the description from the website:

The Schempp Tuff is one knife that truly lives up to its name. Its stout CPM 3V blade is mated to a handle featuring a G-10 scale and stainless liner on one side and a sold titanium scale on the other. An oversized pivot and a Chris Reeve Integral Lock (R.I.L.) with a hardened steel insert ensure superior strength and increased wear resistance, while its dimpled texture and four-position clip provide exceptional grip and ease of carry.
Yeps but it is still the Tuff and why is this knife so heavy, has it a very stiff lock and a super thick blade if you should only use it to cut paper. Then I don't need a Tuff but a Chap is sufficiant. I don't see the point of the super strong build folder if you can't put it to use?
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ASmitty
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Postby ASmitty » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:13 pm

Sorry to hear you got a lemon man. They show up everywhere.
"A flute with no holes is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a danish."

Quietly lurking the Spyderco forum since 2003...

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Minibear453
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Postby Minibear453 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:18 pm

I think it's better to let spyderco decide. Also, he's not "spewing negative stuffs," he's just saying what happened to his knife. There's nothing negative directed towards the maker, just information about his knife. I hope this gets fixed.
Carry a sharp knife, and life will never be dull

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Postby VashHash » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:22 pm

Spyderco actually prefers to know when their products fail not to mention DC has been a member of the spyder community for quite some time. I don't think he would post this is a negative way. Sorry about your tuff man. Spyderco will probably take care of it and be happy to examine it to see what happened

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GTPowers
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Postby GTPowers » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:57 pm

¿Dónde está el Sr. Sal?

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Postby DRKBC » Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:59 pm

Cheddarnut wrote:Id have to agree. This forum needs to include experiences that are not censored towards the bias of fanboys, in order to provide the full gamut of possibilities of experience with a given product. The tuff, as far as i understand it, was designed to chop, hence the 3v blade. Was this user opinion or empirically stated by spyderco? I cannot say. I can say we talk alot, and people without enough experience to argue what they read are bound to believe threads building up knives in the image of the poster. If user opinions are revoked as soon as there is an issue in the real world, it makes us sound like unaccountable hippocritical gossip queens.

+1 - In order for a forum to be useful people need to feel comfortable raising questions, concerns, issues and experiences. I think Spyderco has built their business that way if they didn't they wouldn't be half the company they are today. I am sure when they built this forum that they didn't always expect the members would be singing the company theme song. Hmmn wonder if they have a company theme song.

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Stuart Ackerman
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Postby Stuart Ackerman » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:13 pm

Yup...that old Michael Jackson song...

"Just Teeth It..." :D :spyder: :spyder: :spyder:

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Minibear453
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Postby Minibear453 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:14 pm

More like "the itsy bitsy spyder.... cut up the water spout..." :P
Carry a sharp knife, and life will never be dull

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Jay_Ev
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Postby Jay_Ev » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:38 pm

Cheddarnut wrote:Id have to agree. This forum needs to include experiences that are not censored towards the bias of fanboys, in order to provide the full gamut of possibilities of experience with a given product.
On the surface, that sounds great and everything, but the reality is every time someone comes here and attempts to do that, the wolf pack comes out and shames & humbles that person into shutting up and going away. I'd bet my entire Spyderco collection there are forum members out there too intimidated and uncomfortable to post for this very reason.

I feel bad that DCDesigns experience didn't measure up to the hype but also feel confident that were he to send it in, the folks at Spyderco would repair or replace it.

Good luck, DC.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] <--- My Spydies <click the dancing banana!>

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thelock
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Postby thelock » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:42 pm

Blerv wrote:I'm guessing there are some folks who would disagree with that (as a general statement). Chris Reeves, Mick Strider, Ernest Emerson, Ed Schempp, etc.
With all the respect, the first three make overpriced not hard use folding knives. I would rather be stuck in the woods with a nice back-lock knife and feel safe to use it than a frame lock that might fail on me. With that in mind I am ordering the strongest folding knife in the world which actually costs the same as most crappy finished Emersons.
:spyder: Paramilitary 2
:spyder: Bob Lum Tanto Sprint
:spyder: Anso Zulu
:spyder: Szabo Folder
:spyder: Delica ZDP-189
:spyder: SS Kiwi
:spyder: SS Bug set

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Evil D
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Postby Evil D » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:51 pm

thelock wrote:With all the respect, the first three make overpriced not hard use folding knives. I would rather be stuck in the woods with a nice back-lock knife and feel safe to use it than a frame lock that might fail on me. With that in mind I am ordering the strongest folding knife in the world which actually costs the same as most crappy finished Emersons.

I'm curious as to what that might be?
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
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thelock
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Postby thelock » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:01 pm

Wildsteer WX
:spyder: Paramilitary 2
:spyder: Bob Lum Tanto Sprint
:spyder: Anso Zulu
:spyder: Szabo Folder
:spyder: Delica ZDP-189
:spyder: SS Kiwi
:spyder: SS Bug set

grewich
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Postby grewich » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:06 pm

While I can't speak for the man, but I it were my company I'd very much appreciate threads/experiences like this. These real life 'field tests' tell me more about my product than the usual, "I just got X and I love it so much it will sit my safe/sit in my display case/ride in my pocket only to show people how nice it looks." Normally when I read the 'how did u use ur spydie I see stuff like, I open a package or some mail. It's nice to hear someone using there $200 tool. Mad props DC.

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Postby JudasD » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:09 pm

I am glad that the OP posted this experience in the forums. It is a personal experience that should be heard. He is in no way bashing the company, just stating what has happened to him. If you never receive any real-world feedback then you tend to believe your own hype and BS. I would love to hear what the warranty department has to say about the knife. Hopefully it is just a flaw with that one knife and not a class issue.

JD


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