Some Taichung knives have thick bevels?

speedcut · #1

Ok guys don't throw stones yet.....i have observed that some knives made in Taiwan have very thick bevels-Valloton,Navaja,- some are designed to have it like the Tuff and some are thin like the Zulu.....what worries me is that it might become a trend to have thick grinds and that might not be good for Spyderco...
Opinions?

Sht · #2

My GB has about 15 on one side & maybe 18 on the other

Blerv · #3

It's all context, IMHO.

Compared to many makers event the most obtuse (and thick) Spyderco is a scalpel. While I think the factory grind on even the Sage1 is quite thick compared to the Caly line almost everything out there is.

One potential cure for the thick grind blues is a proper hollow-grind. Since they are the pariahs of the blade market these days I guess we should just be begging for more like the Chaparral...thin stock, flat grind.

Edit: I hate autocorrect.

DeathBySnooSnoo · #4

Some of those knives also have thick stock. That means that with a FFG blade you are going to have a wider angle or a super high bevel line. If you want thick stock and thin grinds, you have to look at maybe going hollow ground.

Because FFG is what is popular right now, that is what you get. You can have knives reground and thin the stock out some if you really don't like the thicker grind.

And Sht. My GB came about 23 per side new...now it sits about 17 or so. So yours seems to be pretty obtuse and I would expect would be a little unusual with the GB's hollow grind.

speedcut · #5

The GB is OK the Zulu is ok but both are hollow grinds...what i'm tryin to say is i 'm starting not to like how thick the Taichung grinds are coming ...there i said it...fingers crossed for the grind on the Szabo.... :p

Clip · #6

speedcut wrote:The GB is OK the Zulu is ok but both are hollow grinds...what i'm tryin to say is i 'm starting not to like how thick the Taichung grinds are coming ...there i said it...fingers crossed for the grind on the Szabo.... :p

It's a good thing you're upset about how thick they're coming instead of how thin. You can solve your problem easily :)

Blerv · #7

speedcut wrote:The GB is OK the Zulu is ok but both are hollow grinds...what i'm tryin to say is i 'm starting not to like how thick the Taichung grinds are coming ...there i said it...fingers crossed for the grind on the Szabo.... :p

The GB is a high-hollow. The Zulu at least by the picture is a FFG with a swedge.

Changing the bevel angle of a secondary bevel is pretty easy, at least comparing to grinding the primary bevel thinner. Given how most people treat their knives it's probably a better sales tactic. The snobs have the stones and the time, the n00bs don't get chips, everyone wins. :D

Better yet if you can find someone who can do a proper re-grind it makes all the difference. I should have shipped Brad Southard half my collection instead of two knives when he was doing them.

speedcut · #8

The Zulu is high hollow....IMHO the grinds made in Golden or Seki City are all very good grinds and some of the grinds in Taiwan made models are too thick ..anyway i guess it's personal preference... :)

The Deacon · #9

Are you talking thick behind the edge? Some models may be designed that way by Spyderco or, in the case of custom collaborations, by the knifemaker. Don't have any of the models you've mentioned, so I can't compare, but IMHO, at least some Taichung models like the Chaparral, Terzuola SlipIt, and Sage are quite good in that regard.

speedcut · #10

Yeah i'm talking thick behind the edge or in some cases too thick.... :)

ABX2011 · #11

I don't think it's a trend or a Taiwan specific thing. You're right, some knives have thicker bevels and that's something I try to determine before buying a knife. I was disappointed with the thickness behind the edge on the Vallotton. But that knife to me is less utlility focused than others. The Gayle Bradley is an amazing cutter. The Sages are ground pretty thin. I almost always thin out the bevel anyway.

bh49 · #12

speedcut wrote:i have observed that some knives made in Taiwan have very thick bevels-Valloton,Navaja,

You are correct about Valloton and Navaja.
Even after reprofiling mine to 30 degrees, the blade behind the edge was thicker than on original Manix, which was disappointing, especially considering that Manix has 4mm stock and Navaja 3mm. Krein regrind certainly helped.

JudasD · #13

I just bought a Navaja and i'm not sure i see what you are describing. I measured mine and it is about 25 degrees (give or take) on each side. To the OP, do you know what kind of angle your Navaja has?
I suppose this might be to much since it would make it difficult to sharpen on the sharpmaker. I have not tried yet but i bet it would just roughen up the shoulder rather than hit the edge.

JD

Sht · #14

DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:
And Sht. My GB came about 23 per side new...now it sits about 17 or so. So yours seems to be pretty obtuse and I would expect would be a little unusual with the GB's hollow grind.

I edited my post thanks for pointing that out. I was trying to say GB has a nice thin edge.

DCDesigns · #15

I think you are not giving credit where its due. It doenst really have anything to do with those models being made in Taichung. After all, As Deacon touched on, the factories are only opperating on parameters given to them by Spyderco and the designers.

Besides, for every thicker bevel knife made at the Taichung factory, there is a superb thinly ground super slicer made as well. The chaparral, the Southfork, and my new personal favorite the puukko just as some example. the reason i think you see the more extreme grinds or entricate moels coming out of taichung is the faith spyderco has they can trust that particular factory to do a great job handling it.

...Some of you are talking more about factory grind angles for the secondary bevel, which can be changed quite easily with a steady hand, a rough stone, and some elbow grease.

Evil D · #16

Consider the knives you mentioned. The Vallotton for example has a sort of compound grind, so obviously the tip inch worth of blade is super thick compared to the heel of the blade, so you're going to get a wide bevel no matter how low you run the angle. Also consider that it's a relatively short height blade, which is 4mm thick, so they only have so much room to transition the hollow grind up into the spine.

In other words, the knife just isn't designed to BE thin behind the edge. It isn't designed to slice tomatoes, it's designed to stab through sternums. I wouldn't consider this to be a sign of things to come. If you want thin, look into a Caly 3.5.

Blerv · #17

Evil D wrote:In other words, the knife just isn't designed to BE thin behind the edge. It isn't designed to slice tomatoes, it's designed to stab through sternums. I wouldn't consider this to be a sign of things to come. If you want thin, look into a Caly 3.5.

Exactly.

If you take all the knives made by Taiwan without names you could also speculate that they grind blades thicker on average and cost far more. Japan in turn could be assumed as a cheap place to make knives and primarily do slicers.

It just so happens that certain models go to certain makers depending on factors we don’t see. Taichung crafts the Chaparral which is the slicer of the entire fleet. Seki makes the Superleaf which is a pretty thick knife in general.

You gotta give the people what they want. There is a push for exotic materials and heavy duty blades. If people wanted banterweight slicers at rock bottom prices the model line would look drastically different. Luckily we currently get a nice variety of flavor as it’s the spice of life. :)

speedcut · #18

Ok guys ,thanks for the answers ...the thing is i want Spyderco to remain a performance oriented brand like it is now and not to much prybar style cutters would certainly help... :)

The Deacon · #19

speedcut wrote:Ok guys ,thanks for the answers ...the thing is i want Spyderco to remain a performance oriented brand like it is now and not to much prybar style cutters would certainly help... :)

****, if it was up to me, all Spydercos would have 2mm or thinner blades ground to **** near zero edges. But there are other folks who love folding prybars. Simple truth is, if Spyderco catered exclusively to your tastes, or to mine, or to those of any other single individual here, their sales would plummet.

bh49 · #20

The Deacon wrote:****, if it was up to me, all Spydercos would have 2mm or thinner blades ground to **** near zero edges.

I like this. May be not all, but I wish it would be more than just a couple. Still cannot figured out why Kopas had 3 mm stock, when even Delica and 75 mm Persian made with 2.5 :confused: