Factory edges

[stalag2]

Hello there.

I dont want to sound whiny or lazy but on most of the knives i bought lately very few had a decent easily sharpenable bevel.
For the record i only had 3 knives bought this year with a clean 30 degrees angles allowing me to maintain a 40 degrees microbevel using the 204, these 3 knives are: yo2, ti millie, and a bright orange ffg delica. ( here is the rest of what i bought this year, all of them required different but sometime really long reprofiling jobs using diamond rods : police3, para2, ppt, zulu, 2 endura4, manix2, millie, the worst being the zulu with a changing angle from the heel to tip, tip being at 60 degrees, and a flat saber serrated endura which i am still not able to use the 204 with, also worth mentionning that the g10 millie arrived with nicks and burrs on the serrated edge and an extremely stout angle on the pe part and the start on the plain edge never been apexed leaving some kind of a flat spot running on 7-8 mm.)
Sorry for the big rant but it had to be said.
In NO means i am bashing on Spyderco and i know as a fact that most knives manu facturers have the same kind of issues so the grass isnt greener elsewhere but still i hope you can fix this issue.

[Evil D]

My Yo 2 had a pretty jacked up grind, it has this weird low spot at the tang like the person accidentally laid the blade down lower in that spot when grinding the bevel. I reprofiled it to 30 inclusive and it wasn't enough to get rid of it. I usually don't care about this kind of stuff but i guess if i used a Sharpmaker it would upset me more.

What i found even more interesting than this was the Vallotton's grind was in the neighborhood of 60 inclusive, meaning it can't be sharpened at all on the Sharpmaker.

[stalag2]

Yep i sincerely think about getting a edge pro just to deal with these funky edges, dont get me wrong the 204 is freaking awesome to maintain an edge but when it comes to reprofiling and drop 15 - 20 degrees on high carbide steels its a drag and a dull job even while using diamond rods.
When i think about it im quite anxious to receive my southfork with a very nightmarish angle...

[kbuzbee]

Any knife I'm really going to carry/use gets reprofiled anyway. I don't even look at the factory grind.

IMO factory grinds (not specifically Spyderco) are for mass consumption. Typically 30°+ where most good knife steels today can go some to a lot thinner. I'm talking for EDC use, not chopping etc.

I hear plenty of good things about EP, you should look at Wicked Edge as well. It makes "most" reprofiles child's play.

Ken

[stalag2]

**** yes wicked edge systems looks like a clear winner to me but its helluvah expensive compared to the edge pro apex which is itself quite expensive in comparison to lansky clamp kit.
Anyway i dont plan to get a new sharpener before i get that luvly southfork, but it stays in a corner of my mind since quite a bit of time as i would enjoy more freedom of angle choice along with the quickness while reprofiling.

[razorsharp]

I've had some bad grinds too, notably my Manix, which I fixed

[phillipsted]

The only wonky grind I've seen lately on a production Spydie was the orange Dodo sprint. It was just a bit uneven - but it was sharp as the dickens. Given the way that blade curves, it must have been a real bear to sharpen at the factory. My hats are off the the sharpening crew in Golden!

TedP

[Cliff Stamp]

An Edge Pro or Wicked Edge are slower than a benchstone at regrinding which has very little sensitivity required. Simply pick up a coarse decent benchstone, set the angled under 15 dps and then sharpen as required on the Sharpmaker. It is very easy to judge less than 15 dps and you don't need to be exact, just less than 15 for it to work.

[Sht]

An Edge Pro or Wicked Edge are slower than a benchstone at regrinding which has very little sensitivity required. Simply pick up a coarse decent benchstone, set the angled under 15 dps and then sharpen as required on the Sharpmaker. It is very easy to judge less than 15 dps and you don't need to be exact, just less than 15 for it to work.

This is what I do but I still go back & forth about buying a new knife or an wicked edge pro plus. I got the $ just can't pull the trigger

[jzmtl]

Same experience here, even worse if you want to sharpen at 30° instead of 40, I ended up with a 1x30 belt sander so it's a lot easier now.

[chuck_roxas45]

This is what I do but I still go back & forth about buying a new knife or an wicked edge pro plus. I got the $ just can't pull the trigger

I was that way too until I gritted my teeth, got an edge pro, and rediscovered my pleasure in all my knives. With a new knife, you get just one new knife. With an excellent sharpener, all your knives become new knives. From zero to hero in one fell swoop...

[jackknifeh]

The edge bevels, angles, sharpness level expected by people who frequent knife forums are probably good enough about half the time. I have to say I have pretty high standards now that I didn't have before I started learning about knives which of course leads to sharpening. I've seen a few edges on brand new Spyderco knives (and other companies) that are definately unacceptable, even to a non-knife person. If I couldn't sharpen a knife and bought a nice Spyderco or any companies knife and it would barely slice printer paper I'd be mad. Especially when all the advertisements talk about how sharp the knives are. I'd have to say in my limited experience that sharpening quality is where production knives fall short compared to the other things like strength, fit & finish, lockup, etc. Sharpening is a skill that takes at least a little patience and patience isn't always possible in an "assembly line" environment. In my experience I'd say 30% of my Spydercos came VERY sharp. 50% came sharp enough to more than please the average pocket knife carrier and 20% I'd call dull. Like the OP I'm not complaining, just stating what I've experienced. Here is where my trust takes over. I have faith in the Spyderco folk's dedication to quality in every aspect of their products. So, when an issue like this is disccussed several times in the past 5 or 6 years without any consistant improvement I figure it's the nature of the production knife company world. If I paid a reputable knifemaker to make a knife for me and sharpen it I'm sure it would come hair whittling sharp. I bet I'd have to wait months to get it also.

But, even if a knife comes razor sharp, unless it's maintained it will be in terrible shape sooner or later. So every customer will be faced with a dull knife and will need to sharpen it or have it sharpened. Then the funky bevels can be taken care of also I guess. I have seen a coupel of Spydercos that were VERY sharp but had the funkiest bevel angles imaginable. :) Poor bevels or uneven angles doesn't mean the knife is dull.

I believe the people at Spyderco want to hear our thoughts, good and bad. Well, maybe more of the good thoughts. :)


Jack

[Blerv]

Seems the factory's main goal is functional sharpness. I've had less symmetrical grinds or some with less consistent shoulder heights. None that haven't sliced paper readily out of the box at most places on the blade. Quite possibly "all" but I can't recall.

With a factory sharpening available for only return shipping their definition of sharp is pretty consistent. It's not sharpener obsessed perfection though due to the equipment used.

Not trying to defend. Your observations are very valid. I just think some of the finishing is on par with the price and designation (manufactured vs custom). I'm guessing all CRK/Striders are maticuliously finished but the business model allows for it. I don't own one and only can guess though.

[Aotea]

And while on the subject of factory edges.

What grit is used for the final factory grind on Spyderco's blade edges?
After the the final grind, is the edge stropped or buffed?
If so, with what?

[JD Spydo]

I don't mean to derail the thread or go off in another direction. Albeit I've said for years now that unless you are willing to learn the skill of "sharpening" and learn it well you are really putting yourself behind the 8 ball so to speak when it comes to knife usage and knife ownership.

Just simply buying and learning the basics of the Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker will give you a great basic awareness of what objectives you need to attain for the skill of sharpening.

I agree with Cliff Stamp that learning the basics of using benchstones can help a person greatly to understand what you are trying to achieve to properly sharpen, reprofile and to also repair a very dinged up edge that's been abused.

I would recommend learning to use the benchstones and the Sharpmaker before ever getting an Edge Pro or Wicked Edge system.

Now for those of you who just simply don't have the time or the patience then by all means go ahead and send your stuff back to Spyderco>> but you are really at a disadvantage if you don't learn the skill of sharpening.

[Evil D]

I agree with the mentality that to be in this hobby you really need to learn to sharpen but at the same time I don't think people should be expected to sharpen new knives right out of the box. That's like buying a car and being expected to make it run. And drive off the lot.

[stalag2]

I think you missed the point completely JD Spydo, i know how to use the 204 ang get a consistent hair whittling edge on any of my knives...
My gripe is simply that i find quite abusive to spend 2 hours or such to correct a very bad grind on a new knife using diamond rods.
Also please explain me how t reprofile an offset serrated edges since i cant use diamonds nor grey stones on them.
So please read, understand and quit being an overloyal stubborn fanboy.

To conclude i would paraphrase Sal on the 204 DVD:
We are one of the few companies that care about factory bevels.

[JD Spydo]

I agree with the mentality that to be in this hobby you really need to learn to sharpen but at the same time I don't think people should be expected to sharpen new knives right out of the box. That's like buying a car and being expected to make it run. And drive off the lot.

I wasn't necessarliy going in that direction>> and yes I do agree in principle that if you buy a brand new knife and no matter what maker or manufacturer you buy it from you do indeed have more than a reasonable expectation to have it sharp right out of the box. Way before I got into Spyderco's great blades at one time many moons ago I was a big fan of Buck knives ( and I still am to some degree)>> and you talk about being sadly and profoundly disappointed I got one of their top of the line fixed blades i.e. the model 119 which is still a good fixed blade in my book. That knife was as dull as a wooden nickel and it literally took me the better part of a complete day before I was able to get it sharp enough to use.

But I'm not picking on Buck in particular because I've heard similar testimonies from several other production knife companies. I do see what you're saying EVIL D and I'm with you on believing that any knife you buy new should be sharp enough to use right out of the box. No what I was trying to get across to many here on the Forum and do keep in mind that most of the people that have signed on recently are not like myself and yourself having the ability to put a very nice edge on a blade. That's why I was trying to drive home the point that all knife users and all knife owners should be very knowledgable about sharpening.

I truly believe that knife sharppening is truly one of the most important "survival" skills that you can have next to being able to start fires without the use of matches and cigarette lighters>> along with being able to make water safe to drink>>> next to those 2 skills I do believe that knife sharpening is a close 3rd to those.

But in reality you and I also know that if we go to a knife or gun & knife show and come home with 10 new knives there are going to be at least 3 of them that do need sharpening>> it's a sad fact of life and one that knife manufacturers should be ashamed of but it's truly a fact of life and you and I both know it unfortunately. I just want all the new folks to the forum to realize just how important it is to be able to put your own edge on a blade.

[JD Spydo]

I think you missed the point completely JD Spydo, i know how to use the 204 ang get a consistent hair whittling edge on any of my knives...
My gripe is simply that i find quite abusive to spend 2 hours or such to correct a very bad grind on a new knife using diamond rods.
Also please explain me how t reprofile an offset serrated edges since i cant use diamonds nor grey stones on them.
So please read, understand and quit being an overloyal stubborn fanboy.

To conclude i would paraphrase Sal on the 204 DVD:
We are one of the few companies that care about factory bevels.

No Brother I do indeed get your point but I guess I "fast forwarded" my point a bit too much :o Please read my last post i.e. the one I just put down before this one. I'm explaining that it is a sad fact of life that if we go to a knife show or a gun and knife show and come home with 10 brand new knives in the factory boxes there will be at least 3 of them that need to be sharpened.

I'm just driving home the point that we as knife users and owners can't really rely on others for sharp knives 100% of the time>> no unfortunately we all need to be able to make a blade usable. I'm very sorry that happened to you.

Now I will say this about Spyderco, Boker and Benchmade all 3>> It's not very often that I find one of their knew knives brand new and in the factory box that needs anything done to it. But on rare occasions I do find one every now and then that at least neeeds to be touched up. Sad to say that some manufacturers don't do very good at all selling a finished product to the public.

Believe me I'm on your side on this issue because I've experienced what you are experiencing right now. And it's not a very pleasant thing to find a brand new knife dull or needing attention. In some ways it's completely inexcusable which is why Spyderco and a few other companies do much, much better than most.

[stalag2]

I do believe aswell that once you got a decent quality knife you should learn to make it/keep it sharp, i strongly believe that you are hindering yourself if you rely on factory resharpening or third party resharpening, being very conservative on the steel ground while doing so.
But in my book its kinda not normal to get a blunt tool from the box when you paid for a sharp tool sold by a company known for making sharpeners before starting to sell knives.
In my opinion, the minimum would be to be able to use the sharpmaker and either hit the whole bevel or better, just the very edge as seen in a microbevel.

Last thing,most of the knives i have cited were totally unable to slice a not so thin paper even after stropping, how useful is that kind of edge ?