Ugly grind on Military, bad QC?

[razorsharp]

when I said 5 years- I didnt mean approx :p . I usually sharpen around once a week and probably wouldnt remove that much in 5 years, but others who sharpen more (like I used to) might

[KardinalSyn]

Sorry the intent was not to be harsh. I was responding to a couple points you brought up but the overall response was not 100% to you.

That's good to know. :)

Edit: If you could outline the part that seemed harsh I would be more than happy to work on my comments in the future. I'm earnestly attempting not to piss people off here. :)

It was those two last sentences in your reply to mine. I was wondering on whether I was included in the "most" group and why.

cheers

[00max00]

I had to look at that photograph a couple of times and then compare it to my own digicam Millie before I could fully comprehend just how much steel is missing from that blade. I'm guessing, but I bet that blade is close to 2mm narrower at that point than it should be.

I hope you don't mind that I attempted to more clearly illustrate what I perceive to be your justifiable cause for concern? (See pic below)
Granted this (Yellow Line) is nothing more than a very rough approximation of where I feel an excess amount of steel was ground from the OP's blade. But I think it definitely makes his case for the grind being very poorly executed and something that, IMO, should have been caught upon a final inspection. I mean, even using a very basic blade template could have disclosed this error, I would think?

All that being said, I would just return it for a new knife -- Problem solved!

Thanks for illustrating where the correct grind line should be, I could have done this myself. It is about 1.5 mm extra metal grinded off, and it is the worst grind on any of my knife regardless prices. I don’t mind uneven grind on each side, as it is normally seen on many of my lower cost knives, but this is too much, especially when you can get much better grind Chinese knives for $10.

5 years huh? We must use knives very differently. I don't even consider my use particularly challenging like some here do with their knives. Anyway, Fume away. :)

Joe

I have been working in IT departments of large corporations, my tools for work are my computers, so you know I don’t have opportunity of using knife much. I buy Spydercos and others mostly for my collections as I love knives, one quality knife may as well take my lifetime of usage and still have metal left for several generations.

I am not criticizing QC at Spyderco as a whole as its Taichung production lines are excellent. I own many Taichung made models, each one of them has met even exceeded my expectations, the Golden productions, however, leave a lot to be desired. Of my recent purchases, 2 out of 3 have been returned; the issues were described in my original post, some of you do not think these were issues; I respect your opinion as everyone entitles their own. However, low quality expectations from some customers should not be taken as benchmark for setting QC standards, given the tradition of Spyderco striving to be the best in industry, or any reputable companies for that matter.

I will continue supporting Spyderco, not by turning blind eyes towards their lower quality divisions, but to buy from their best to reward diligences and innovations.

[Blerv]

It was those two last sentences in your reply to mine. I was wondering on whether I was included in the "most" group and why.

Not at all friend :) . That was just my horrible formatting. Thx for the critique.

Cheers,

[The Mastiff]

I respect your opinion as everyone entitles their own. However, low quality expectations from some customers should not be taken as benchmark for setting QC standards, given the tradition of Spyderco striving to be the best in industry, or any reputable companies for that matter.

I wouldn't call it low quality expectations. It's a different customer which calls for different needs. We are all different to an extent. To me, if it's not a performance issue it's not really an issue. Obviously I do have limits too though they are different from yours.

If there was a bad heat treat and it wasn't within spec on the hardness, for instance, back it would go. One example of the things that I am picky about. Once again I stress that I'm not attempting to suggest my way is the correct one. It is only for me. Your way is correct for your needs and you are supposed to know what you want, and go after it. I sure wouldn't suggest otherwise.

Of my recent purchases, 2 out of 3 have been returned; the issues were described in my original post

Spyderco has never been a company that put looks above performance. A quick glance through the catalog shows that. If Spyderco/Golden does not meet your needs, go somewhere that does with your hard earned money. CRK was one suggestion but not the only one. It's the old saying in a way. We can make it inexpensive, reliable , or fast. Pick two of the three. You suggest you are more of a collector than user. You are here at the home of performance knives, not pretty ones.

Do you by chance recall what knife buying and use was like pre-Spyderco, and then pre-internet days?

Joe

[The Deacon]

...some of you do not think these were issues; I respect your opinion as everyone entitles their own. However, low quality expectations from some customers should not be taken as benchmark for setting QC standards, given the tradition of Spyderco striving to be the best in industry, or any reputable companies for that matter.

I will continue supporting Spyderco, not by turning blind eyes towards their lower quality divisions, but to buy from their best to reward diligences and innovations.

The "op-ed" on that would be to note that, while there are a number of excellent reasons to purchase Spyderco folders, and a number of things they're noted for, flawless fit and finish have never been among them. That's even more true for the models produced in Golden than for those produced elsewhere. So, what one customer considers to be low expectations another would consider to be reasonable ones, and what one considers reasonable another would consider unrealistic, especially on a model like the Military.

[SDR]

I am truly hard-pressed to fully understand why some here seek to nullify a legitimate complaint about an obviously flawed knife by insisting that it's "only cosmetic" and "it doesn't affect the knife's performance." And then to suggest that if the OP wants perfection he should buy a custom knife or a Sebenza because a $140 knife from Spyderco is just too inexpensive to be free from flaws.

Huh?

That's like telling someone who takes delivery a new Ford and discovers that it has a significant dent in the fender to buy a Ferrari or a Rolls Royce if they expect a car free from dents and defects. And then to further tell them that the dented fender doesn't affect the car's performance. Which is no doubt true. But that's beside the point.

In this day and age, at least in my world, $140 for a knife constitutes a substantial investment. I have a drawer full of Chinese tactical folders -- Enlan & Navy, etc. -- that all cost well under $20 and they are all free from manufacturing defects. Cosmetic or otherwise. All quite nice, actually! I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect a Company that makes a knife that costs ten times more to be at least as good as the knife that costs ten times less.

From my perspective Spyderco does not need to be defended by those who insist that they are willing to live with cosmetic flaws and imperfections. Spyderco, in my book, is a great Company and should be taken to task when they make an occasional mistake. That mistake should definitely be pointed out to them and then made right. That's just good business!

That's my unsolicited $0.02 on the subject. YMMV :)

[MCM]

I sent the middle one back. No big deal.
I didnt feel right trading / selling it. So it was returned for another. (This was a couple yrs ago)
Might have been fine for some & not others.
Just posting as it was a similar issue.



To me, it really looked odd. More so in person.



But good Co's take care of things like this.
So, its no big deal.

[The Mastiff]

I am truly hard-pressed to fully understand why some here seek to nullify a legitimate complaint about an obviously flawed knife by insisting that it's "only cosmetic" and "it doesn't affect the knife's performance." And then to suggest that if the OP wants perfection he should buy a custom knife or a Sebenza because a $140 knife from Spyderco is just too inexpensive to be free from flaws.

I don't see anyone attempting to nullify anything. If you refer to my posts your reading comprehension is lacking. You feel satisfied with Enlan and Navy knives because they are inexpensive and pretty. I see cheaply made junk that looks pretty but doesn't perform up to my needs. In any event comparing Spyderco to those companies is an irrelevance. Yep, I have some, as well as rough riders etc. If you find one that performs up to the levels of my less than eye perfect Spydercos than by all means bring it up as some kind of point you intend to make.

There are companies that go for looks. If you are a person who gets his panties in a twist about looks, try there. If you want the highest performing matter separators that use very high performing and at times cutting edge materials with ergonomic designs to help the performance of the knives than you might belong here. Performance is the focus of Spyderco. It's what revolutionized the industry and brought a lot of us here ( since 92 when I bought my first).

You call it " seek to nullify a legitimate complaint". I call it having my own opinion. You seem to be seeking to nullify my opinion which strikes me as a bit hypocritical. If you have issues with anything I write please contact the mods to see if they agree and if they notify me to stop, I will obviously comply.

Or, you can go back and re read what I wrote defending the OP's decision to seek a solution acceptable to him. Either way, enjoy your not so high performance but pretty Enlans and Navy knives.

Joe

[KardinalSyn]

I bought my third Military in black camo recently, 3 years after I bought the first two, the grind on it is plain ugly. IMO whoever let this pass QC should be fired. This one really should be sold as a second. What do you guys think?

I have noticed that Golden made Spydercos generally have greater variation in quality control. I've bought a couple Manix XL as well, one is good enough to make me happy even the blade is not dead centered, the other has significant side-to-side blade play that no amount of pivot adjustment can fix. Spydercos have the best consistent quality are no doubt coming from their Taichung production, and may be the only Spydercos I would seriously consider buying in the future.

What's the latest on your knife please? Just curious to know. Hope that you would provide an update when you're able to.

[00max00]

Well, I can’t recall I have ever said that I required all my Spydercos to be flawless or I would not have so many already in my collections, but some of you keep attaching false info as facts, not quite sure about the intention behind it.

I suppose the logic is quite simple, in order to stay on top, you need to set the bar high when the rest of the world is catching up. Yes I can either return it or replace it, not a big deal, but when you depend on customer doing the QC, something is wrong.

Glad it was just your opinion not the attitude of Spyderco as a company doing business. I don’t think you are helping Spyderco, if you are working in a competitive environment, keep yourself awake is the key to survive.

[00max00]

What's the latest on your knife please? Just curious to know. Hope that you would provide an update when you're able to.

It was returned for a refund.

[KardinalSyn]

It was returned for a refund.

Thanks for the reply.

[Ankerson]

5 years huh? We must use knives very differently. I don't even consider my use particularly challenging like some here do with their knives. Anyway, Fume away. :)

Joe

That's the one that got me too. :D

More like a few months the way I use my blades, but I would fix it right away so it wouldn't matter.

[Ankerson]

Well, you could take away that amount of steel in 5 minutes if you chose to, or it could take 5 years if you're a skilled sharpener and you don't damage the knife.

I'd venture to say that if I wanted to, I could use a millie every single day for over 5 years and not remove that much steel. A nice laid back bevel paired with a micro bevel and a diamond loaded strop can keep a knife off of stones for a looooong, long time. **** I've used my para 2 for two months and I still haven't had to put it to a stone at all. I can break down so many boxes that the edge won't even catch on a finger nail, then strop it up on kangaroo leather loaded with HA diamond spray and it will whittle hair in less than 5 minutes of work. :D

You can only do that so many times until the edge would have to be refreshed because it will get weaker and not hold sharpness as long each time, or should I say metal removed.

If you doubt what I am saying run a knife through your testing process, 1st time with a new edge then strop it and run it again, then again, and again, it will do progressively worse each time. Then refresh the edge and you will be back to the original performance.

I strop mine too until the edge needs to be refreshed, that could be a month or a week depending on how much damage the edge takes.

[SDR]

It was returned for a refund.

I would have been disappointed with the grind on that blade, also. It's unfortunate that you had this experience with such a great knife as the Spyderco Military. Based upon my experience with Spyderco I know that the grind on your knife is the exception rather than the rule. And that this defect does not serve to represent Spyderco anymore than some of the opinions expressed in this thread. I am glad to hear that you have sought to find remedy with a refund.

Cheers, my friend ~ Better luck in the future!

[00max00]

I would have been disappointed with the grind on that blade, also. It's unfortunate that you had this experience with such a great knife as the Spyderco Military. Based upon my experience with Spyderco I know that the grind on your knife is the exception rather than the rule. And that this defect does not serve to represent Spyderco anymore than some of the opinions expressed in this thread. I am glad to hear that you have sought to find remedy with a refund.

Cheers, my friend ~ Better luck in the future!

Thanks for your kind words. I am glad that I have two Military's in my collections already, so this one is not really a necessity.

The point I am trying to make is when a mistake happens, what important is to admit it, find the cause and prevent it in the future. Hasn't Spyderco already have a program called CQI- Constant Quality Improvement? In my line of works, an innocent mistake could cause company ton of money in reputation and legal damages, people got fired because of that. What disappoints me the most is some poster's view as it is OK to keep making it the way it is. Well, you better watch your rear view mirror, others are catching up fast.

[chuck_roxas45]

Thanks for your kind words. I am glad that I have two Military's in my collections already, so this one is not really a necessity.

The point I am trying to make is when a mistake happens, what important is to admit it, find the cause and prevent it in the future. Hasn't Spyderco already have a program called CQI- Constant Quality Improvement? In my line of works, an innocent mistake could cause company ton of money in reputation and legal damages, people got fired because of that. What disappoints me the most is some poster's view as it is OK to keep making it the way it is. Well, you better watch your rear view mirror, others are catching up fast.

I think they're called blinders... :D

[Evil D]

It would have been a problem for me too, but i don't think i would've made a thread about it complaining about it. I would've just sent it back for a refund or replacement, done deal, period, the end. Until you've been in a manufacturing environment and/or done quality control testing, you just don't know how easy it is for things like this to slip through. These are KNIVES people, not pacemakers. Nobody is going to die in a fiery death if a knife with an off grind slips through. There is a balance between quality control and production efficiency and cost. If they spent more time nitpicking every tiny detail, you'd see that reflecting back at you in the higher cost for these knives. I'm not justifying anything...it's a mistake, it's a crappy grind, and it shouldn't have been sent out for sale, but it happens and it's not the end of the world. There's a real live person doing the bevels on these knives, and real live people make mistakes. What were we all supposed to do anyway, grab our torches and pitchforks and head to Golden and demand this guy's job or his life? Let it go already lol.

[dbcad]

[quote="chuck_roxas45"]I think they're called blinders... :D

We all have our different preferences :) What's percieved by some as a defect in a hand sharpened production knife doesn't really bother me at all. Just adjust to compensate :)

"If you live in a closet, even the nail holes look like caves"

Can't understand the hubbub myself.