Got my Tuff have question

[cckw]

I got my Tuff today. *EDITED* is local for me, got before they put them on the webstore :) But I'm not getting the design. PM & PM2 fit my hand perfectly but Tuff seems to be for a much bigger hand... But I am thinking rather then hand size I am not understanding the design. Can someone 'splain it to me?

[SCARLETT]

Pictures please

[jabba359]

What part of the design are you not getting?

<i>Edit: I don't mean the above question facetiously, but was wondering if there is a particular element that you were wondering about.</i>

[.357 mag]

Tuff question...

[jabba359]

If I understand the knife correctly, everything is designed to be extremely tough (hence the name). The pivot is oversized to be super strong, the very thick Ti lock should withstand extremely hard use, the 3V steel is designed to hold up under shock without chipping; whereas the typical Spyderco is designed more for slicing. Think of it as being a bulky tractor, rather than a lithe sports car. Completely different vehicle designs for completely different purposes.

[cckw]

What part of the design are you not getting?

<i>Edit: I don't mean the above question facetiously, but was wondering if there is a particular element that you were wondering about.</i>

I can't use the thumb ramp and choil at the same time. can't ever have a grip that includes the choil, furthermore my hand can't find a natural home. I am a lefty, but I get the Lionspy.

Also the blade angle vs grip I don't get the point. I didn't read any of the advance stuff on this model, just saw the photos and liked how it looked, plus the 3v blade.

I try to post photos tomorrow (unless others do). I've never posted photos on this forum before, but it's probably not rocket science

[jabba359]

I can't use the thumb ramp and choil at the same time. can't ever have a grip that includes the choil, furthermore my hand can't find a natural home. I am a lefty, but I get the Lionspy.

Also the blade angle vs grip I don't get the point. I didn't read any of the advance stuff on this model, just saw the photos and liked how it looked, plus the 3v blade.

I try to post photos tomorrow (unless others do). I've never posted photos on this forum before, but it's probably not rocket science

I've also run into the occasional Spydie that just doesn't seem to fit my hand right as well. Could be that this is one of those for you.

As for the blade angle, IIRC Ed designs quite a few of his knives this way for a specific reason. When you hold the knife straight out (as if to stab something) the angled blade should form a straight line with your arm without bending your wrist. A bent wrist is fairly easy to buckle and a weak point in the arm, so by keeping your wrist straight, you are able to deliver a stab with more power behind it as the power is now delivered straight from your arm and isn't bent through the weak point of the wrist. The angled blade also helps you be able to slice with a straight wrist, reducing fatigue, as you are cutting with your much stronger arm muscles instead of your wrist muscles.

I'm sure somebody could explain it better than me, but hopefully it makes sense. Maybe someone more familiar with this design can chime in, but that's what I seem to remember.

[cckw]

Here are photos, and before it screws with your head, that's a lefty Mili. See how the choil and thumb ramp are offset on the Tuff? I know Spyderco does everything for a reason that is why I am asking about it

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[ATTACH]20626[/ATTACH]

not sure why, but you have to click on the photo title to see the pix

[Clip]

Whew, that is an extreme difference between the grip and choil. Would like to know the answer as well.

[jossta]

In listening to Ed talk about this knife, maybe the fwd choil isn't meant to be used in a normal grip. It could serve two other purposes. To prevent the knife from cutting your fingers off if it ever closes and to help with a grip where you're completely choked up, as in grabbing the knife only by the blade for really fine work. Also IIRC, that choil is freaking massive. Maybe it will work well with gloves?

****, who knows. I don't have one and probably won't ever. Just thinking out loud...

[Drkknight614]

Traditional, choils on knives are there so that you choke up on the knife to do fine detailed work. Your fingers should be grasping the blade itself and beyond and type of thumb ramp. I know many spyderco knives go against this rule because the choil lines up with the thumb ramp, but imo, thats really not choking up too much. It seems the Tuff you can really get up there. Also from what I can tell, the blade is THICK, meaning it has some weight to it, so if you just choked up where the thumb ramp was, you really wouldnt have the precise control you should be getting when choking up on a knife, hence the obvious larger and more forward choil.

Btw...how much $$$?

[dgulbra]

The thing I don't understand is a knife that is nearly 9" long, and has only 3" of sharpened edge.

[Minibear453]

Well, it loses around an inch for the choil, and the other inch is probably due to space for the pivot, and buffer zones so the blade doesn't come out the knife, and the backspacer fits. And since it's a frame lock, you also need the scales to extend further forward to cover up the detent hole, and so that the stop pin would work when the blade is both open and closed. So you lose an inch in the blade, and another inch through space needed to make the knife work. That's my guess anyways. Anyone know why there's a groove in the blade?

[phaust]

Are you grabbing it on the blade part of the choil or the handle? Normally one grabs the blade part, but for this design, it seems to me (just from looking at the picture) that you would want to grab around the handle part, and the unsharpened part of the blade is for if your finger slips/slides in that direction. In other words the unsharpened part of the blade would catch the side of your finger, not the pad side.

Here is a bad ms paint picture to show where I mean to grab it. I painted in a finger. The black circle thing is meant to be your fingernail. Imagine your index wrapping around:



Like that I suspect you can rest your thumb on the top jimping.


By the way, how's the fit and finish on that beast?


edit: Figured out another way to show it. I printed it close to actual scale

[Evil D]

I really think the choil is a back burner grip option on this knife. When do you actually use a choil on a big nasty knife like this? You're gonna spend most of your time white knuckle gripping the crap out of it with a full fist grip. This is one folder I'd just assume didn't have the choil at all.

[akaAK]

Like others have pointed out here, the choil option is not the primary focus of the grip. It is an option that probably won't get much use, using the knife as designed. After you put it through its paces be sure to update the thread.

Occassionally a knife you really want to like doesn't fit your hand (mine is the Gayle Bradley). Unfortunately it doesn't leave alot of options. If a knife doesn't feel right the first time you hold it it is unlikely it ever will.

[chuck_roxas45]

Are you grabbing it on the blade part of the choil or the handle? Normally one grabs the blade part, but for this design, it seems to me (just from looking at the picture) that you would want to grab around the handle part, and the unsharpened part of the blade is for if your finger slips/slides in that direction. In other words the unsharpened part of the blade would catch the side of your finger, not the pad side.

Here is a bad ms paint picture to show where I mean to grab it. I painted in a finger. The black circle thing is meant to be your fingernail. Imagine your index wrapping around:



Like that I suspect you can rest your thumb on the top jimping.


By the way, how's the fit and finish on that beast?


edit: Figured out another way to show it. I printed it close to actual scale

Sorry for the OT but what is edge length on the Tuff?

[eloreno]

It looks like the thumb ramp would work for the regular grip.
If you choke up, with your finger in the choil, can you put your thumb on the spine of the blade in front of the thumb ramp and jimping?
The superleaf is like that...

[Donut]

I think what you are seeing is that a large portion of the blade is flat. On a knife that can have a grip choked up or held back further, when you have your hand back further, the flat part of the blade is there to protect your hand from the sharpened part of the blade closing on it.

[Clip]

Anyone know why there's a groove in the blade?

Minibear, check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuller_%28weapon%29

Adds structural support without the weight.