Importance of grammar, spelling, consideration, and coherence in forum posts??

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dbcad
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Importance of grammar, spelling, consideration, and coherence in forum posts??

Postby dbcad » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:11 am

This community that I've had the priviledge of being a part of for the past 2-1/2 years has and is always impressing me with the tolerance and helpfulness of it's members :D For me it always feels a bit amazing when I can communicate with folks halfway across the country and the globe solely by typing words on a virtual page :)

I'm not complaining about anything, just asking a question and looking for opinions about the importance of grammar, spelling, consideration, and coherence when posting? I'm just looking for some feedback and maybe hope to gain a bit of perspective.
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Postby The Deacon » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:54 am

We all make mistakes but but tolerance, like many things, is fine in moderation. In the extreme, tolerance becomes license, or at least gets taken for license. With language, that's already happened to some extent. Some, especially of the older generations, would say to a disturbing extent. So, to me, there's a world of difference between mocking someone for a petty error in spelling or grammar and being at least mildly intolerant of more egregious offenses against the language.

What would I put in the later category? For one thing, posts in which less than half the words are spelled correctly, especially when the misspelling is obviously intentional. The fact that our eyes and our brains can generally sort out such things is, IMHO, no excuse for them. Posts which consist of a thirty line run-on sentence would be another. Granted, HTML is partly to blame there, only allowing a single whitespace character between visible characters, but that only makes the use of capitalization and dividing thoughts into paragraphs separated by a blank line more important. Post which appear to be the product of a mind clouded by drugs, alcohol, or nature. Granted, we've all probably had a good laugh at something we're fairly sure we'll burn in Hell for laughing at, but at some point Brownian motion on the keyboard ceases to be amusing.
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Postby dj moonbat » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:17 pm

I only start caring about people's inattention to what they're writing when they start getting testy about how people are misreading what they say. This happens to a shocking degree on the Intertubes.

Person A fires off a bunch of random "thoughts," which thoughts Person B interprets in a manner unfavorable to Person A's standing in the community. Person A gets mad, not at him/herself for burdening the community with the responsibility of making sense out of Person A's statements -- but at Person B, for failing to appreciate just how clever Person A really is, through the haze of poor communication.
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Postby mikeo » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:28 pm

dbcad wrote:This community that I've had the priviledge of being a part of for the past 2-1/2 years has and is always impressing me with the tolerance and helpfulness of it's members :D For me it always feels a bit amazing when I can communicate with folks halfway across the country and the globe solely by typing words on a virtual page :)

I'm not complaining about anything, just asking a question and looking for opinions about the importance of grammar, spelling, consideration, and coherence when posting? I'm just looking for some feedback and maybe hope to gain a bit of perspective.
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Postby jackknifeh » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:33 pm

dbcad wrote:This community that I've had the priviledge of being a part of for the past 2-1/2 years has and is always impressing me with the tolerance and helpfulness of it's members :D For me it always feels a bit amazing when I can communicate with folks halfway across the country and the globe solely by typing words on a virtual page :)

I'm not complaining about anything, just asking a question and looking for opinions about the importance of grammar, spelling, consideration, and coherence when posting? I'm just looking for some feedback and maybe hope to gain a bit of perspective.

Start here: I've known some great people who don't have the education to write with proper grammer, punctuation, etc. Sometimes they might use the wrong word when talking in person also. Once this fact is established communicating with them is easy and usually a pleasure. However, on a forum like this one we don't always get the chance to find out someone had to quit school in the 9th grade to work and help suport his Mom and younger sister. Sound unrealistic in this day and age? Might be compared to 100 years ago but it happens. I would hate this person to be treated harshly because they didn't put a period where it belongs making whay he typed hard to understand. Improper grammer also can be read and misunderstood compared to what the writer intended.

This is the sad thing about this type of community and I don't know how to remidy it. There are those who think it's cute to use all the chat room acronyms in a forum. It's ok in a chat room I think to save time while typing. In a forum we have time to write complete words. Having said that we have a few acronyms don't we. IMO, EDC, OTOH, etc. I had to ask what every one of those meant (and more) when I started reading this forum. But, if you have the ability to use proper grammer and pronunciation you should use it. I believe used correctly it makes what we write very close to what we really mean. Not that I always use correct skills. My keyboard does get lazy sometimes. :)

I also think the reader should hesitate before getting mad about something they just read. I might misunderstand what someone wrote and get offended when I shouldn't. It's very easy to do.

It's hard to explain a simple thing like sharpening. Edge angles, primary and secondary angles, etc. are things that when written can be hard to understand. If we use proper pellsing, punctation and grmar things are muc eesier to get our thots acros.

Hope what I was thinking came across in my typing. :)


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Postby phillipsted » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:33 pm

mikeo wrote:privilege
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Postby phillipsted » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:37 pm

The folks at Cambridge University say that humans can "error correct" an amazing amount of inaccuracies and still discern the content. Check out the following scrambled paragraph (some of you may have seen this before):

I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid, aocdcrnig to rseecrah at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mttaer in waht oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rhgit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whoutit a pboerlm. Tihs is bucseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey ltteer by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Aaznmig, huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghhuot slelinpg was ipmorantt! See if yuor fdreins can raed tihs too.

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Postby dj moonbat » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:41 pm

phillipsted wrote:The folks at Cambridge University say that humans can "error correct" an amazing amount of inaccuracies and still discern the content.

Sure, but for people who speak and write English natively, it's unfair to put one's readers in the position of having to do all that error correction, rather than the writer. Again, I don't care, as long as the writer is A-OK with being misunderstood. If, however, one wishes to get a specific point across, one should try to find the right words rather than rely on the kindness of strangers.
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Postby Jay_Ev » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:48 pm

Sorry, but there is zero excuse for it. In this digital age we have things like auto-correct, spell check, online dictionaries, etc that basically do all of the work for you. Little red squiggly lines appear under spelling mistakes to let the user know something is wrong. If someone can not string together a coherent statement with all of those aides assisting him, then there is no excuse other than flat-out laziness.

I get that those things might not be 100% accurate, but there is a world of difference between the occasional, accidental typo and something that is written in internet short-hand "text speak".
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Postby jtoler_9 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:08 pm

Jay_Ev wrote:Sorry, but there is zero excuse for it. In this digital age we have things like auto-correct, spell check, online dictionaries, etc that basically do all of the work for you. .
I think that is a big part of the problem. Auto-correct type software will only get you so far. For example their, there and they're don't have any auto correct errors, but they can be used incorrectly given the sentence.
It's an interesting topic. It might be more of an off topic discussion. I was never very good at spelling anyway. Then I learned to speak, write and read Spanish. Whatever talent I previously had went way downhill after. So I know how much I rely on Auto-correct, but believe me it's not going to help with proper sentence structure and choosing the wrong words. Lazy or not, if you don't have a great command of the language, you will get caught posting errors like the rest of us.

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Postby jtoler_9 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:12 pm

The Deacon wrote:We all make mistakes but but .
If that was a pun, it was well done. :)

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Postby tvenuto » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:22 pm

Jay_Ev wrote:I get that those things might not be 100% accurate, but there is a world of difference between the occasional, accidental typo and something that is written in internet short-hand "text speak".
Seconded. Also, I think there's clearly context to consider. A single errant thread isn't going to draw much ire, but when it's clear that someone is just blasting out incoherent threads without taking a moment to see if the topic is discussed elsewhere, patience wears thin. This forum is a fun place to be because of the courtesy shown to those asking questions or wanting to discuss things with other like-minded knife-nuts. When asking questions or starting threads, it's important to reciprocate that courtesy by doing some legwork on your own, and ensuring that your post is coherent. Given the generosity of those likely to take time to answer your question, it's not too much to ask.

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Postby Pinetreebbs » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:39 pm

Time Out Please!!!

Before we get too haughty looking down out noses at grammatical mistakes and spelling. This forum is hosted in the USA but posters are from all over the world. For some of them (US) English is a foreign language.

I also want you to know several posts and their resulting comments have had me: LOL*

*: LOL is an abbreviation tweens and teens use when they text message, email, chat online, or even communicate verbally. LOL can stand for Laughing Out Loud.
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Postby jtoler_9 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:50 pm

Jay_Ev wrote:Sorry, but there is zero excuse for it. If someone can not string together a coherent statement with all of those aides assisting him, then there is no excuse other than flat-out laziness.
I think you mean cannot. It should be one word. :) Ironic isn't it? I can see how this thread can quickly get out of hand.

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Postby phillipsted » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:01 pm

Image

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Postby Alan Mackey » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:12 pm

dbcad wrote:This community that I've had the priviledge of being a part of for the past 2-1/2 years has and is always impressing me with the tolerance and helpfulness of it's members :D For me it always feels a bit amazing when I can communicate with folks halfway across the country and the globe solely by typing words on a virtual page :)

I'm not complaining about anything, just asking a question and looking for opinions about the importance of grammar, spelling, consideration, and coherence when posting? I'm just looking for some feedback and maybe hope to gain a bit of perspective.
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Postby Owl45 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:12 pm

jackknifeh wrote:remidy
remedy :D
jtoler_9 wrote:I think that is a big part of the problem. Auto-correct type software will only get you so far.
Yep. None of the tools are will catch everything. They can help, but are no substitute for proof reading what you have written.

I use ieSpell (which will spell check anything written in a browser) to catch basic spelling errors.

Personally, I try to just overlook the errors. We are all human and make mistakes and I certainly make my share.

Sometimes responses are written quickly (maybe too quickly?), but when the intent is to help, should we really be critical of a small error?

I do scratch my head at times when it is obvious the OP has not made much effort to form his thoughts and ask his question, which often results in less than helpful replies by confused responders.

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Postby v8r » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:09 pm

Jay_Ev wrote:Sorry, but there is zero excuse for it. In this digital age we have things like auto-correct, spell check, online dictionaries, etc that basically do all of the work for you. Little red squiggly lines appear under spelling mistakes to let the user know something is wrong. If someone can not string together a coherent statement with all of those aides assisting him, then there is no excuse other than flat-out laziness.

I get that those things might not be 100% accurate, but there is a world of difference between the occasional, accidental typo and something that is written in internet short-hand "text speak".
Call me lazy then. I spend enough time every day proof reading e-mails etc to care if every word on a open forum is correct on spelling or my sentences are grammatically correct. Some people here aren't English majors. I have had several "college" educated people make fun of me lately due to my southern accent, but you know what's funny I'm making more money than I ever have yet they cannot seem to find a job.
Sorry to get off track a little, but it upsets me when people get judgmental about how someone speaks or writes and then deems them unintelligent or lazy. I personally have a tendency to think abstractly, and that is why I do so well at my job. Lately there is a phrase that is thrown around such as " thinking outside the box". Maybe there is a little meaning in that..........
I hope nobody takes offense to what I have written here, because that is not my intention. Just wanted to throw my point of view in the mix, and to stress there are more important things to worry about in life than silly spelling or grammatical mistakes.
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Postby dbcad » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:09 pm

phillipsted wrote:Yea! You passed Charlie's test! Your certificate is in the mail... :rolleyes:

TedP
Trying hard to be clear, I wasn't trying to advocate anything or set any bar or level of "judgement". Apologize if my query was taken that way :o

**********************************

I am looking for feedback and opinions. This post seems to generating quite a bit of that. Only looking for these things because I value the forum and what being here has taught me. I very much appreciate this virtual online place :) and only want to better help any newer folks that come along.

My take is that more precise and exact wording will help any individual convey their point. Conveying your point and sentiments more exactly will most likely lead to more productive responses from the forum.

If I came off as tyrannically judgemental I apologize. I thought I took pains to avoid any such misunderstanding :o If anyone wants to poinjt out the flaws in my original post, please feel free to do so publicly. As well pick out the flaws in my own posts. I'm the first to admit I'm not perfect :) If nothing else these acts will raise awareness :)

The thought was to try the gauge the percieved importance of language use in a virtual setting such as this where words on a virtual page are all you have to convey your point.

I think we would all agree that the use of only the written word on a page can be tricky and have unforeseen consequences with regard to understtanding.

I'm still loving the Cento though :D
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Postby mikerestivo » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:12 pm

This is my post from one of the other threads:

The "wall of text" thing really honks me off. I typically don't bother reading those posts (with no capitalization, puncutation or a reasonable attempt at proper spelling). If someone wants readers to respond to his ideas and questions, make the post reader-friendly.

Most of what I am seeing appears to be coming from folks posting from cel phones, and I would guess that they are just too lazy to make sentences look like sentences.

I'm not referring to isolated typos; I'm talking about this kind of thing:

some of the msrp rates on there knives like the ed Shemp balance barely and inch long shut and is roughly around 200 or better and other like it be honest

Any forum is about communicating ideas. If you can't be effective at expressing yourself to others, you are not going to get much out of it.


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