Sage 1 or Caly 3 ZDP

[benben]

New knife time again and this time i want something a little larger than
my Chaparral and a little lighter than my Native 5. These two knives, especially the Sage 1 really stands out to me. I know the N5 is only 3.7 oz and really isn't that heavy, just want something that feels a little
lighter/smaller in my pocket and is still around 7" long.
It will be used for EDC and i use a pocket knife alot. No experience with
ZDP, so anyone who has both i would love to hear what you think about them and which one you prefer.
benben

[rodloos]

It's really just going to come down to which you prefer, they are both excellent knives. I prefer the textured CF on the sage 1, but carry my Caly 3 more often because it is thinner. I think the CF on the Caly3 is beautiful, but it is smoother than the Sage 1.

The softer outer steel that wraps the ZDP, can scratch easily, if that bothers you, but the ZDP holds its edge very well! You really can't go wrong with either one.

[Evil D]

I've owned both and faced this same decision. If you ask me, you should decide which lock you like better and just go with that, because both knives are excellent. I ended up keeping the Caly because i had already used it and wasn't going to get new condition trade in for it at my local knife shop, but if both knives were new i don't know which i would've kept. I really like the ergonomics of the Caly better, and i prefer the blade shape of it over the Sage, but that's not to say the Sage's ergos aren't awesome. The thing about the Sage is that it has pillar construction which is really nice, and the pivot is ridiculously smooth. The Sage has a thicker blade, and the Caly has been known to be one of the highest performing slicers in the catalog. The Caly does have better steel, but it takes a little practice to master sharpening it. It's really a toss up...i wouldn't say either knife has cons, just a lot of pros for each one and it just comes down to which you prefer over the other.

[jackknifeh]

I have never had a Caly3 but have had quite a few ZDP knives. Personally I wouldn't make the decision because of the steel in this case. I love my Sage 1 and S30V is a perfectly great steel IMO. Like Evil said ZDP has some sharpening issues. One is it takes longer to reprofile because it is so hard. That's really no big deal because you would probably only do it once. Then you want to always have an edge bevel of 36 - 40 degrees to maintain a strong edge to resist micro chipping. The back bevel can be very low to create a great slicer. I understand the Caly 3 is already a wonderful slicer. Of course this is only my opinion but if I were you I'd get the knife you want based on other features than the blade steel in this decision. All I know is the Sage1 is a great knife and everyone who has a Caly 3 loves it. You have a fairly difficult decision. Blame that on Spyderco. They make so many great products it's hard to choose. :)

Jack

[Blerv]

I adore the Sage series. The II is probably my favorite knife.

That said the Caly3 will feel MUCH smaller in pocket and is a proverbial slicing "laser" compared to the Sage. In fact, knifes like the Sage in comparison feel like lumbering brutes to a low-angled ZDP-189 blade.

What the Sage offers is a really nice choil, a wide and comfortable handle, and a variety of non-slick handle materials. The slick CF is probably my least favorite handle material. While beautiful it's just a little "meh" in hand. I don't have a Sage1 but hear the CF on that is superior on a comfort level.

[jackknifeh]

Sage 1 has the same twill CF as the Chaparral. I love it on the Chap, Sage 1 and GB.

Jack

[mikerestivo]

I have the regular Caly 3 and had a Sage 1. Both are fine knives. I prefer the fit of the Caly 3 in my hand to the Sage series, but that varies a lot from person to person. Other than the feel in my hand, it would be hard for me to choose between the two.

[mley1]

I recently picked up a Sage 1 and really like it. It seems to fit my hand well. Excellent fit and finish. Plus, it's a very useful size that doesn't scare most sheeple.

[DedRok]

I've heard really good things about the Caly, although I've never owned one.

However, I would suggest the Sage 1 to anybody. It's classy, beautiful and functionable. The wire clip against the CF will stay onto your pocket and won't destroy your pants. It makes some nice noises as well... similar to the pleasant sound of a zippo flicking.

[PARATOM]

i have been thinking of this same situation in my head b/c i love the look of the caly 3 and if i would get it, it would replace the duties of my sage 1...which i LOVE!!

This is a hard one, and in the end, i prob will get the caly 3 and just alternate the 2 (sage 1 and caly 3) for the occasion...

I agree with what is said above on not letting the steel sway you one way of the other... both have their +/-. If possible, get both in your hand and that would be the deciding factor.

Keep in mind, Caly 3 is pinned construction and closed back, Sage 1 is screw together and open back... if that matters to you.

Good luck man, you cant go wrong either way :)

[benben]

Thanks everyone for your input !
I pretty much have decided on the Sage1. I have one question.........i assume the ZDP steel is different on the Delica4 FFG then the laminated ZDP on the Caly3, is one better/worst than the other ? rodloos commented earlier about the Caly3 blade scratching easy. The reason i bring up the ZDP Delica is i could go ahead and get the Sage1
and the Delica and save around $45.00 over the caly3 and maybe put the savings toward the Caly 3.5. The 3.5 is only 5/8 of a inch longer than the Caly3 and it looks like a
pumped up G-10 Dragonfly plus it has VG-10 steel which i really like. Just a thought ?
benben

[jzmtl]

Lol, this exact question comes up every other month. There are differences you can't see on paper, even though both are FFG distal taper, caly 3 is grounded much thinner in both tip and behind edge. I see caly as a light/medium duty duty that I'd carry in a suit, and sage as a work knife that looks good at the same time.

ZDP is same on delica and caly, there's only one ZDP189.

[Ferris Wheels]

I have both of these knives and wouldn't part with either of them. I edc both regularly and prefer the sage 1 a little more for edc because it is easier to open and close one handed. Which ever one you choose will put a big smile on your face. Plus you are looking at this all wrong, you will end up buying them both eventually so the real decision is which one do you want first :D

[Blerv]

It comes down to manufacturing style. Moki uses a laminated process of ZDP-189/420j2 instead of a solid blank.

I think The Deacon has a thread of edge angles but I expect the Caly3 and Delica4 to have close angles out of the box. The difference though is one is a choil oriented classy folder and the other non-choil utilitarian. That and double the price.

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

There are differences you can't see on paper

I continue to be amazed at how the smallest differences in design and size in a knife handle can translate into a different feel. Before I buy a knife, I always read reviews and watch YouTube videos, etc. I research well. But none of this really gives me a decent idea of what the knife will feel like in hand. And two knives can look almost the same size in pics, but feel radically different in size in hand or in the pocket.

[The Deacon]

The Caly 3 has a hand-neutral lock. It's also thinner, lighter, more compact, and is a better slicer due to being thinner behind the edge. On the down side, ZDP is less rust resistant, the 420J2 outer layers scratch very easily, and it has rather lack-luster looking CF. Sage I has the considerably more attractive twill CF, is easier to sharpen, and has a larger Spyderhole. Personally, I'd take the 1/8" hit on blade length and go for the Chaparral over either one as it combines what I consider to be the best qualities of both.

[jackknifeh]

Thanks everyone for your input !
I pretty much have decided on the Sage1. I have one question.........i assume the ZDP steel is different on the Delica4 FFG then the laminated ZDP on the Caly3, is one better/worst than the other ? rodloos commented earlier about the Caly3 blade scratching easy. The reason i bring up the ZDP Delica is i could go ahead and get the Sage1
and the Delica and save around $45.00 over the caly3 and maybe put the savings toward the Caly 3.5. The 3.5 is only 5/8 of a inch longer than the Caly3 and it looks like a
pumped up G-10 Dragonfly plus it has VG-10 steel which i really like. Just a thought ?
benben

The idea of a Sage 1 and Delica ZDP is a great idea. You get one of the knives that you really want plus the experience with ZDP on another great knife, the Delica. Just make sure you buy a FFG Delica. There are still some saber grind models out there. That isn't bad, just a choice you need to make to get what you want.

My understanding of a laminated (San mai) blade like on the Caly 3: I think it was designed primarily for swords many years ago in the days people were hacking each other up with swords almost daily. Maybe that's just in the movies. :D The center layer (core) is a very hard steel with great edge retention. Normally a high quality carbon steel. However this makes it VERY brittle. During a sword fight if your entire blade was ZDP-189 or a more common carbon steel it would shatter when striking another sword. So, to give the blade more felxibility to make it "tougher" they made a very thin layer of the hard steel (core) and then layed softer steel layers on opposite sides of the core steel. Now the blade was tougher. It would still slice well and stay sharp but also withstand the force of being struck by another sword. Today's proof of this would be placing the blade in a vise and bending it until it snapped. The ZDP-189 only blade would snap after bending it a little bit. The ZDP-189/420 blade like on the Caly 3 would bend much farther before it snaps or breaks. I've never seen this exact test but that's the theory. So, having said all that using San mai steel on a 3" blade serves no purpose in regards to toughness in my understanding. The SS sides of the blade are more corrosion resistant of course but I wouldn't care. If the knife wasn't taken care of the core would still rust. ZDP is not real prone to rust though. Also, the soft SS will scratch so if that bothers you this blade may not be the best choice. The reason this steel was chosen for the Caly 3 was explained (by Sal I think but am not 100% sure) and toughness was not the reason for choosing it. Maybe it is less expensive than an all ZDP blade. I don't know but it would not be a "pro" when deciding on a knife IMO.

Jack

[The Deacon]

The Caly 3 is made by Moki and, from what Sal said, Moki does not have the equipment to cut solid ZDP-189 blades so any ZDP-189 models from them (Caly 3, Calypso Jr, Jess Horn Lightweight) have used laminated blades. As you noted, most of the advantages associated with laminates would be minimal or non-existent on a 3" blade. Some folks love the "hamon" look it creates, some hate it, so that can be either a pro or a con.

[Onionman]

I have both knives, and when I first got them I found myself carrying the Caly 3 CF. Although the CF is smooth, it just felt really great in the hand. Because I wanted to carry a larger knife, I rarely carry either anymore and now find myself carrying either the Caly 3.5 or Junior.

[Blerv]

Layered ZDP is probably a little tougher and a little easier to keep sharp as the cutting edge is only the super steel. Also more corrosion resistant.

Correct me if I'm wrong but laminating blades are quite different than steel folding sword techniques. I do recall Cold Steel pushing lamination as the terminator of steel toughness but they talk a lot about that in general. Modern alloys make folding/laminating less necessary because a solid blank of T10 is pretty brutal.