compression lock vs. tri-ad lock?

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iyn
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compression lock vs. tri-ad lock?

Postby iyn » Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:36 pm

Is Spyderco's compression lock just as strong as Cold Steel's Tri-Ad lock?

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Postby Joshua J. » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:28 pm

The correct answer here is... Both? Neither? It depends?


A manufacturer can make any lock to whatever strength they want. You build it, break it, and beef up the part that broke. Repeat until you have the desired lock strength.

I would say that the Tri Ad lock will probably wear in slower as it has more surface area for the wearing parts. In my book they're pretty much equal for reliability (which is probably what most people actually want in a knife. A super strong but unreliable lock is no safer than a really wimpy one).
Total strength? They're probably about the same given knives of equal size.

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The Deacon
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Postby The Deacon » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:56 pm

Both are very strong. Most likely the pivots of both would fail before the locks themselves.
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Postby Evil D » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:20 pm

The Deacon wrote:Both are very strong. Most likely the pivots of both would fail before the locks themselves.
And/or the blade themselves will break depending on what kind of stress is applied.

Personally, the Tri-ad may be strong but the smoothness of the Para 2 (using that knife since it's the primary knife that the compression lock comes on) far outweighs whatever loss in strength it *might* have, which even then is splitting hairs.

To put it the simplest way, both locks are as strong as they need to be when cutting with the blade and using the knife properly. If you wanna drive nails with the spine of your knife, i really couldn't care less which lock failed first.

Here's some comparison pics just for kicks:

Image
Image


If you ask me, the strength from the Tri-ad lock comes more from how much meat they put in the lock bar going into the tang than anything else. I'm no engineer but if i had to assume on why the Tri-ad might be stronger, i'd say it's because the amount of metal making contact with the tang is a good bit more than the thin lock tab used in the compression lock. But, like i said that's irrelevant as long as you don't need to spine whack the crap out of your knife.
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Postby PARATOM » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:24 pm

good comparison pics. Props to whoever took that comp lock pic of the para 2. great way to get a visual.
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Postby dj moonbat » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:27 pm

The Deacon wrote:Both are very strong. Most likely the pivots of both would fail before the locks themselves.
And wouldn't the sides of the handle be likely to fail before the pivot -- being long, thin, and flat?

This is why I'm always amazed by the popularity of liner locks. The liner lock puts the whole burden on a part that's really long and really thin, and that flexes back and forth every time it's used.

But realistically, most users never put enough stress on the spine of the blade to overcome any of the main locking mechanisms out there.
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Postby The Deacon » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:39 pm

dj moonbat wrote:And wouldn't the sides of the handle be likely to fail before the pivot -- being long, thin, and flat?

This is why I'm always amazed by the popularity of liner locks. The liner lock puts the whole burden on a part that's really long and really thin, and that flexes back and forth every time it's used.

But realistically, most users never put enough stress on the spine of the blade to overcome any of the main locking mechanisms out there.
That's mostly a question of semantics, unless you're talking failure from side loads caused by prying or twisting. Pivot will rip out of the handle. Call it a handle failure, or a pivot failure. Either way, if you have to worry about it you are using the wrong tool for the job.
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Postby Evil D » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:42 pm

PARATOM wrote:good comparison pics. Props to whoever took that comp lock pic of the para 2. great way to get a visual.
I believe David Lowrey took that pic, he's a member here.
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Postby Blerv » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:25 pm

A good case of the "any lock can be as strong as we want to make it" would be the Tuff's modified RIL which has to be one of the most stout folders out there.

The main factors in locks (especially these) are:

1. What's the classification per the maker? Light, medium, heavy, Tactical vs gents, etc.
2. How does it function for your needs and preferences? Ie: operation and effort needed
3. What's available to chose from for your need?

The Tri-Ad and Comp Lock are going to be available on different models and different brands. Trying to put a Polar Bear against a Rhino would be awesome sight but they live in different areas of the world.
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:40 pm

I wonder if Demko's statement about no framelock being able to carry more than 200 pounds is still true with the tuff.

And it's tiring hearing the objections about what folders are not meant to do. ;)

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Postby Donut » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:03 pm

Folders are meant to slice spam and cheese. No more, no less! :D
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Jet B
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Postby Jet B » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:05 pm

The beautiful thing about the compression lock is that it achieves that high strength with a lightweight open pillar flow through design that is easy to keep clean and by nature would not fail when bunged up with dirt or sand.

I have a real problem with backlocks and sandy work environments and although I don't own a Triad lock it looks pretty much like it would have the same dirt issues as a backlock.

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Postby mann0mann » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:15 pm

I've owned both and my only gripe with the Triad Lock is just how much force and how much "travel" the lock must be depressed to unlock the knife. It's never come natural to me with a Triad and very rarely is it a one handed operation. It's definitely one of the most solid and confidence inspiring lock mechanisms I've used, but I prefer a compression lock for ease use. I always wish Coldsteel would use a boye dent on their locks, not that I think it's needed for that functionality, but just for making the lock feel a little easier to use. I know it has nothing to do with it, but I always feel like the boye dent softens the feel of the lock. For example, I wish my Chaparral had it as well. It feels sharp without it.

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Postby PARATOM » Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:58 pm

Jet B wrote:The beautiful thing about the compression lock is that it achieves that high strength with a lightweight open pillar flow through design that is easy to keep clean and by nature would not fail when bunged up with dirt or sand.

I have a real problem with backlocks and sandy work environments and although I don't own a Triad lock it looks pretty much like it would have the same dirt issues as a backlock.
agreed. comp lock can be operated much easier. I have never owned a cold steel knife, but ive handled them in my local gun shop and that lock is much harder to disengage.

I dont know if the tri-ad lock is much more secure than the comp lock, but even if it was, the usability alone puts the comp lock on top for me.
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Postby jackknifeh » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:31 am

What I like about the Tri-ad lock is the angle the lock bar/tang meeting point is. I believe for 100% guarantee that the lock bar won't "work" it's way up, releasing the lock accidentally the angle needs to be at 90° with the imaginary line throught the pivot pin and blade. The Tri-ad "meeding place" seems to be angled back when locked so any pressure on the spine would actually try to hold the lock bar in place. Of course this "reverse angle" (for lack of an educated term) will make the lock harder to release accidentally. That's a good thing. My mini-lawman releases easy enough but nothing compared to any Spyderco I've held. When I push the button the blade almost falls down. Just a tiny jerk is needed. The knife locks up solid with no blade play. The fact that there aren't any liners on the CS knives of this type initially suggests "not as strong". But the G-10 being thcker seems to make the knife VERY strong. If the tri-ad is stronger than the compression lock, I don't know or really care. As mention several times both are more than strong enough and probably as strong as any lock out there. If you need a lock that is stronger get a fixed blade.

Donut said "Folders are meant to slice spam and cheese. No more, no less!". I disagree. I have used my folders to slice real ham as well. :D Even a hot dog or two and there's no telling what is in there. :eek: While I understand what he means and I know he's joking to a certain extent, it surprises me how often people seem to think folders are "weak". A good folder will take quite a bit of twisting and/or prying without damage IMO (or experience). My Manix2 or GB will handle any prying that is acceptable for fixed blades that wouldn't be considered abuse, even for a fixed blade. NO knife is designed to be used that way even though we do it from time to time. Personally, I'd like to see the Manix2 with the thicker liners used on the GB. I think that is what makes the GB such a hard core knife. I know, that would make it thicker and heavier. For me though, that wouldn't matter because the Manix2 is already to big to carry in my pocket. If I EDC a Manix2 I use a pouch. For anyone who likes a Manix2 in their pocket thicker liners would be bad.

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Postby KardinalSyn » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:40 am

Interesting.

I have two CS blades with the Tri-ad lock. An American Lawman and a Recon 1 ( Gave away a raja III). What first came to mind was to put the Recon 1 and Military through a series of lock defying tests. But nah, I shall leave that to the pro's.
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Postby The Deacon » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:44 am

chuck_roxas45 wrote:And it's tiring hearing the objections about what folders are not meant to do. ;)
Doubt the folks who believe that will stop any more than the folks who are too **** lazy or shortsighted to carry the proper tool for a job and get upset when the inevitable happens will stop whining about that.
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Postby kbuzbee » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:40 am

Blerv wrote:Trying to put a Polar Bear against a Rhino would be awesome sight but they live in different areas of the world.
Even if they lived in the same area, I'm sure the polar bear is smart enough to just walk away and go find a nice juicy seal ;)

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:48 am

The Deacon wrote:Doubt the folks who believe that will stop any more than the folks who are too **** lazy or shortsighted to carry the proper tool for a job and get upset when the inevitable happens will stop whining about that.
Why do you assume that folks who are tired of hearing what folders are not meant to do, do those same exact things that they are tired of hearing of? What if somebody just wants to know for curiosity's sake? It's called the search for truth Paul. Some people do like to know which is which. If some people are tired of hearing the same things, that probably means they know it already.

You are probably confusing those who are tired of hearing the same things over and over with those who don't know better.

The fact is that some knives are stronger than others. As mentioned a manufacturer can make a lock as strong as they want but what about strength in existing models? They can't be equally strong.

Also whether it matters to you or not, it matters to some. It's just like wanting to know the specs of a racecar. Lock strength on specific models is knife trivia after all and we are knife nuts and to some this trivia is interesting. It is probably not up to you to dismiss what others find interesting to know.

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Postby wec12 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:52 am

I still can't figure out why Tri-Ad lock would be stronger than lockback...
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