m4 rust

[God'sMyJudge]

What, if anything, can I do about this. Is it bad for the knife? I had the same problem with my super-blue. I haven't gotten it wet, it just starts getting rust spots around the hole. Houston humidity?

[mattman]

I think you are on the upper end of the "acidic body-chemistry" spectrum... probably oil/acid from your thumb...

[Cliff Stamp]

What, if anything, can I do about this. Is it bad for the knife?

M4 isn't a stainless steel, never is Super Blue so they will both rust fairly readily in a humid environment. Clean it off with a mild abrasive and it will leave behind a light staining, this staining over time will form a stable coating. If you never want to see it you have to keep the blade protected with a rust inhibitor, a standard oil will do.

[Blerv]

Clean, dry and oiled. It's never going to be non-maintenance but polishing it up and using synthetic agents like Tuf-Glide will sure help.

[God'sMyJudge]

Right, I realize their both non-stainless. If I don't do anything about this though, will it hurt the steel? I don't really mind how it looks.

[mattman]

"rust" colored rust will cause pitting...

the darker colored oxides that form a "patina" will effectively "seal" the steel from further corrosion.

[SolidState]

Noxon will remove it. You will want to oil afterward.

[Blerv]

I would read up on how to force a patina or use protectants. As mentioned by Mattman "rust" is not good to have.

[Cliff Stamp]

If I don't do anything about this though, will it hurt the steel?

On an absolute level yes, as it is actually the iron in the steel being ripped out by oxygen which forces it into another chemical compound (rust) which is much weaker than steel.

Practically, the level of change is so small you would not notice a difference in performance. It takes extreme environments to actually weaken a blade to the point that you would actually notice a decrease in functional performance. I would assume it would take like a decade of salt water exposure on non-stainless steels to actually functionally weaken the blade.

It is not uncommon to see Opinels used here as fillet knives as they are easy to carry, have nice thin blades and easy to sharpen. The blades rust extremely easily and usually will be coated in rust in use. When they are finished used and cleaned most of the orange rust comes off and over time it stabilizes into a very dark coating which is also just rust but it is a different kind which is stable as it doesn't have a volume expansion unlike the orange kind.

I have never actually seen one break due to rusting, and the Opinel plain carbon steel will rust much faster than M4 or Super Blue.

[jackknifeh]

I use Tuf-Glide on all my folding knives. It seems to be an excellent anti-corrosion product. After using it on M4 I decided to force a patina on the blade. I was VERY unsuccessful. I tried all the standard things like mustard, vinegar, potato, etc. So, I waited a couple of months and didn't use any Tuf-Glide and was then able to force a light patina. Then I reapplied the Tuf-Glide. I wanted the patina because I have read that it creates a barrier against rust. Patina is corrosion of a specific type but not rust and will fight rust forming. That's about as technical as I can get.

There are products and methods to get the rust off your blade but I've never had any rust, or not recently since I've been using Tuf-Glide. One thing I've done with my M4 knives is take them apart to ensure I have the entire tang treated with it. I took them apart even though I probably didn't need to. Please don't tell anyone at Spyderco I did that. :)

Jack

[MCM]

BTW, nice knife. :D

[KardinalSyn]

I use Tuf-Glide on all my folding knives. It seems to be an excellent anti-corrosion product. After using it on M4 I decided to force a patina on the blade. I was VERY unsuccessful. I tried all the standard things like mustard, vinegar, potato, etc. So, I waited a couple of months and didn't use any Tuf-Glide and was then able to force a light patina. Then I reapplied the Tuf-Glide. I wanted the patina because I have read that it creates a barrier against rust. Patina is corrosion of a specific type but not rust and will fight rust forming. That's about as technical as I can get.

There are products and methods to get the rust off your blade but I've never had any rust, or not recently since I've been using Tuf-Glide. One thing I've done with my M4 knives is take them apart to ensure I have the entire tang treated with it. I took them apart even though I probably didn't need to. Please don't tell anyone at Spyderco I did that. :)

Jack

It's a good thing that no one at Spyderco reads these posts chief. Otherwise, you'd be in a wee bit o'trouble.

[Zenith]

I bought some Herschell Silicone Spray and will see how that protects my M4 Manix2. Just something I felt like trying to see how it will protect the blade. It is food safe as well. I read that Gayle Bradley has been using silicone spray on his Gayle Bradley and has yet to see any form of rust.

I noticed that once a patina is formed, usually the first light patina, it is much harder for the blade to form another patina on top of that.

Here is my M4 Military.



Here is my Gayle Bradley patina, note that IMO if the rust looks like anything in the rest of the picture it should be addressed by cleaning it off.

[The Mastiff]

My safe stored blades get a paste wax coating. My users get a clear, pure 100% liquid silicone coating which dries and can't be seen. My M4, M2, Super blue, 1084, O-1 blades etc. all look no different from S30V, M390, S90V, etc.

I'm using a case folding hunter made between 1940 and 1964 and other than the scruff it had from when I bought it used, it looks no different, or even better than it did 10 years ago. I never patina blades. Silicone blades get nightly wipe downs with silicone gun cloths bought at the big box store. Bearing surfaces get dryteflon/pfte lubes periodically.

Tuff glide treatments go far as well in preventing rust. All new blades get treated nowadays. Progress I suppose. :)

Joe

[Dferg10]

That stinks. I a passing on M4.

[God'sMyJudge]

Will flitz get it off? Any suggestions on how or with what to scrub the blade?

[JNewell]

That stinks. I a passing on M4.

I am constantly amazed by the number of people who pass up superb knives and blades simply because they can't, or won't, learn to take a very minimal amount of care of their tools. It wasn't that long ago that stainless steel simply wasn't a decent alternative for a quality blade. :rolleyes:

[Blerv]

I am constantly amazed by the number of people who pass up superb knives and blades simply because they can't, or won't, learn to take a very minimal amount of care of their tools. It wasn't that long ago that stainless steel simply wasn't a decent alternative for a quality blade. :rolleyes:

Agreed. Opinel alone has sold 20 million or so knives, most being carbon. For me the cons of M4 are trumped by the perks. Same goes to exotic SS which main flaw is cost.

[Dferg10]

I am constantly amazed by the number of people who pass up superb knives and blades simply because they can't, or won't, learn to take a very minimal amount of care of their tools. It wasn't that long ago that stainless steel simply wasn't a decent alternative for a quality blade. :rolleyes:

I take very good care of all my knives. You have no idea what knives I have, what I pass on or do not, and whether I know how to and do take care of them.

I recently picked up a para2 cf with s90v and a military with
M390. I have numerous Damascus and non "stainless"steel blades.
I don't pass on superb blades generally and certainly not because I can't , don't know how to, or won't take care of them. I do pass on
M4. I have seen another example of similar rust on the same type knife here in South Florioda recently owned by a friend who takes care of his knives, and I am going to pass.

I am not amazed by the assumptions in your post- it's common on the internet.

[chuck_roxas45]

I am constantly amazed by the number of people who pass up superb knives and blades simply because they can't, or won't, learn to take a very minimal amount of care of their tools. It wasn't that long ago that stainless steel simply wasn't a decent alternative for a quality blade. :rolleyes:

It's probably just a difference of opinion about what superb means to some people JNewell. Superb might mean maintenance free. Maybe for these people, H1 is the superb steel. People like us who want a bit more performance would be more than willing to do that little bit of extra maintenance for what we get in return.