Never had a slippie -- would I want one even though I'm a firm believer in locks?

[KardinalSyn]

I just adore my Squeak.

[flash900]

Sorry -- duplicate -- please see next post.

[flash900]

Follow-up:

I did buy my first slip joint -- an Urban Wharncliffe in Safety Orange (C127GPOR) at a sale price.

I am a sucker for wharnies but was nervous about a lockless folder.

I still wish this was a locking model but I couldn't resist. And here is the vid that helped convince me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx1pmC_5DME

As the reviewer says, the three notches provide a security mechanism. The folder does feel safe in my hand.

In addition to the wharnie shape, pluses for me include the light weight, blade size, the almost deep-pocket wire clip, and the easy-to-use, one-handed operation.

No, I probably won't get any more slippies, but at least I feel more comfortable about this one.

Thanks for all your comments and advice.

[Commendatore]

Another follow-up:

So Paul thanks a lot for recommending the Chaparral. It landed today (went with the current version as Ti handles are not my taste).
Of course I couldn't resist the orange Urban neither, so a pre-sharpening, partly pre-use comparison:
That Urban blade tapers so fast leaving the tip even thinner than the one on the Chapparral. It also came sharper than the CF knife-which will not be of any importance as soon as I touch up that 2mm blade
The Chaparral feels more compact but both handles melt in my grip.
They both are small enough to vanish in my hands when customers enter the store and capable of everything needed there (opening boxes, adjusting price tags ...). Maybe one of them will replace my Robin as EDC. Maybe I will be rotating the three of them :D

So once again this forum made me get some of my favorite knives. They fit my bill for EDC: fine tips, slim blades, sub 3" and they work one handed-no matter which hand I use!

Back to topic:

The Urban is a great knife! Its backspring feels at least as strong as the G10 UKPK's, no chance this knife closes on fingers as long as you use the choil. The length of its handle almost forbids any other grip anyway. Linerless G10 turned out to be my favorite handle: kind of smooth while grippy, strong and neither hot nor cold when you take it from hot/cold places.
It won't be opened/closed as fast as a compression lock but those slipits are strong and reliable (I've done some things with a UKPK Rescue I wouldn't dare to try with most of my fixed blades). You will have to apply some thumb pressure to close it.
So if you are considering a small, yet not tiny, slipit I think the remaining Urbans are a great choice.

Just be informed that switching the pocket clip, while possible, is indeed not just screw open-switch-screw closed. I didn't expect what I found while trying: That back screw holds the spring tension, losening it (meaning taking out the screw opposing tube) will provide a puzzle ready for re-assembly. Fun-but probably voiding warranty.

[Sonny]

Save your money for the Southard flipper that's coming up in the fall.
Sonny

[dbcad]

The Urban is a great knife! Its backspring feels at least as strong as the G10 UKPK's, no chance this knife closes on fingers as long as you use the choil. The length of its handle almost forbids any other grip anyway. Linerless G10 turned out to be my favorite handle: kind of smooth while grippy, strong and neither hot nor cold when you take it from hot/cold places.
It won't be opened/closed as fast as a compression lock but those slipits are strong and reliable (I've done some things with a UKPK Rescue I wouldn't dare to try with most of my fixed blades). You will have to apply some thumb pressure to close it.
So if you are considering a small, yet not tiny, slipit I think the remaining Urbans are a great choice.

Just be informed that switching the pocket clip, while possible, is indeed not just screw open-switch-screw closed. I didn't expect what I found while trying: That back screw holds the spring tension, losening it (meaning taking out the screw opposing tube) will provide a puzzle ready for re-assembly. Fun-but probably voiding warranty.

Sad to see the green Urban disoc'd It is a terrific compromise :) There's a reason Sal's mark is on it :)

[phillipsted]

My view is that if you use a tool, you should have a good awareness of what you can do with it, it's limitations and it's advantages. Sometimes you can feel it becoming an extension of your arm itself. So, if you are comfortable in holding and using a particular knife, even if it is a slipit, you will like it.

I agree, KardinalSyn. I carry a UKPK or Squeak frequently now. These are quite a bit "safer" than the old Case-style slippies, but you still have to reorient your brain to remember what you are carrying.

It's like the difference between carrying a Glock versus a 1911 - there are fundamental differences in the operations and functions of the two models. And you have to be quite cognizant of the differences when you carry. "Cocked and Locked" is a scary proposition for some folks who are used to Glocks and don't have a lot of time with 1911s.

TedP

[vic]

Never had a slipit and, where I live, have absolutely no need for a lockless folder.
Also, I would not want to risk injury to fingers, etc.

That said, I like the looks of one of the slipits on sale at a closeout price. Spydie makes some nice designs, as we all know. Just wish the darn thing had a lock.

And I'm not likely to travel soon to England or anywhere else I'd need this.

Is the sale price and the attractive design reason enough to take a chance -- or should I pass -- as I have regularly for years? And probably will continue to do with other lockless designs.

if there is a slipjoint you especially like for some reason then no reason not to get one but if you have no need for a lock-less folder like you say and have no legal restrictions on locking folders then don't do it to yourself man there's just no point, no matter the closeout price

the slipits are a thoughtful solution to a problem you don't seem to be afflicted with, enjoy carrying your locking folders

[OutOfTheBlue]

Legal issues aside, I just don't see a practical point in using a slipjoint over something that locks.

Certainly there must be valid reasons (i.e. nostalgia, or the aforementioned legal issues) for people to use them, but it's just not for me.

[Donut]

This thread is kind of annoying in the fact that most of the people who argue against slipjoints are people who have never tried them.

I still think that if people will try them out, they will like them.

They are typically a smaller knife, so I doubt people are going to reach for them for the heavier use tasks that I would want or need a lock for.

The Pros:

1. Easy to unlock, you don't have to fool around with the unlocking buttons or springs.
2. They are typically lighter to carry.
3. 99% of use doesn't stress the lock on a slipjoint or locking folder.
4. If you hold the knife by the handle, the choil will land on your forefinger, stop the knife from closing and eliminate almost all of the danger people are afraid of related to slipjoints.
5. All locks can fail with misuse, slipjoints are predictable, you know it is going to fail.

Cons:

1. You can't use them for hard use.
2. If you aren't aware of how to use your knife, it will be dangerous.
3. People are scared of them.
4. People are uncomfortable with things that are different.

[vic]

This thread is kind of annoying in the fact that most of the people who argue against slipjoints are people who have never tried them.

I still think that if people will try them out, they will like them.

your post is kind of annoying too donut

i've tried them, they're the only knives i can carry here without needing to justify why, assuming the cutting edge is less than 3 inches

i don't dislike them, i grew up using SAKS etc i actually love them but i don't love being restricted to them (for carry without a reason)

if you aren't restricted to slipjoints like he said he isn't and you don't especially want one, like he said he didn't, then they offer no advantage over a locker and a lot of disadvantages so for someone with his requirements and his likes (wishes they had a lock) what's the point?

if you want one then fine, some are nice knives, you can't beat a swiss army knife or any other slipjoint if that's what you want but if you want a locking/maybe harder use blade or maybe even a knife with a safety feature such as a lock for the purpose of making the knife safer to use and the laws in your region permit that then you can beat slipjoints

[ChrisR]

I'd certainly prefer to be treated like a grown-up and allowed the choice of whether to carry a locker or a slippie. But in reality I can hardly think of the last time when I actually would have benefited from a lock on a folder, and it's nearly always in those unusual jobs where you need to use it point first. It can be beneficial if you are using a sawing cut through a dense substance, but I think I'd carry a slippie most days even if I could carry a locker ... I just like the simplicity and ease of closing. For arthritic fingers a lock can be fiddly and difficult to close one-handed.

Looking forward to EDCing my Squeak next week :)

[Donut]

your post is kind of annoying too donut

Thanks, that means at least you read the first sentence.

i don't dislike them, i grew up using SAKS etc i actually love them but i don't love being restricted to them (for carry without a reason)

I understand this, it does make sense. I wouldn't want to carry ONLY a slipjoint, even though they do have advantages over locking blades for most uses.

if you aren't restricted to slipjoints like he said he isn't and you don't especially want one, like he said he didn't, then they offer no advantage over a locker and a lot of disadvantages so for someone with his requirements and his likes (wishes they had a lock) what's the point?

That argument doesn't make much sense to me. If I'm allowed to carry a gun, and I can use a gun to cut rope and I prefer to use a gun to cut rope, is that the best option for me? He also was asking why would using a slipjoint be beneficial, wasn't he?

if you want one then fine, some are nice knives, you can't beat a swiss army knife or any other slipjoint if that's what you want but if you want a locking/maybe harder use blade or maybe even a knife with a safety feature such as a lock for the purpose of making the knife safer to use and the laws in your region permit that then you can beat slipjoints

I don't agree with a lock making a knife safer to use. A lock gives you a false sense of security. When you assume the lock will work and it doesn't, then your assumption gets you injured more severely. I believe that a lot knife related injuries could be prevented by using slipjoints.

Your regulations do take a stab at your freedom, but they also give you a preference to some nice, safer knives that raise your awareness. Many of the people from my country assume that slipjoints suck first and find out how they really are much later. You are forced into finding out how slipjoints really are, but the forcing seems to make your preference lean towards a high opinion of locking blades.

There are many people here that lean towards a high opinion of locking blades, so your opinion is well supported.

[Donut]

I'd certainly prefer to be treated like a grown-up and allowed the choice of whether to carry a locker or a slippie.

That sucks. I guess you could move to a country that allows it, the number one thing you can do to change your government's mind is make them lose tax dollars for making bad decisions.

But in reality I can hardly think of the last time when I actually would have benefited from a lock on a folder, and it's nearly always in those unusual jobs where you need to use it point first. It can be beneficial if you are using a sawing cut through a dense substance, but I think I'd carry a slippie most days even if I could carry a locker ... I just like the simplicity and ease of closing. For arthritic fingers a lock can be fiddly and difficult to close one-handed.

Thanks for the opinions on slipjoints, all very good points. Point first, the lock would give you some additional stability.

Looking forward to EDCing my Squeak next week :)

I love the Squeak. The spine of the blade is a little thick for some things. I need to cut some stuff near the tip because the width of the blade at the base will end up pulling things apart and ripping or breaking it in the process.

[vic]

I don't agree with a lock making a knife safer to use. A lock gives you a false sense of security. When you assume the lock will work and it doesn't, then your assumption gets you injured more severely. I believe that a lot knife related injuries could be prevented by using slipjoints.

if a slipjoint is strong enough to stay open reasonably well then it's strong enough to cut you really badly when it accidentally closes on you, so many people get brutally cut by slipjoints when they snap shut, generally speaking a locker won't close anything like that hard, even big lockbacks

[vic]

That argument doesn't make much sense to me. If I'm allowed to carry a gun, and I can use a gun to cut rope and I prefer to use a gun to cut rope, is that the best option for me?

what the f are you talking about

[The Deacon]

Unless it's the only legal option, there is absolutely no "benefit" to using a slipjoint.

The Pros:

1. Easy to unlock, you don't have to fool around with the unlocking buttons or springs. Instead you almost always have to overcome a much stronger spring holding the blade open and be more cautious of it snapping the blade closed.

2. They are typically lighter to carry. If true at all, it's only because they're typically smaller. When comparing knives of the same size and materials, they offer no advantage. For example, a locking SS Kiwi weighs 1.67 oz while the SS Kiwi Slipjoint weighs 1.75 oz.

3. 99% of use doesn't stress the lock on a slipjoint or locking folder. Aside from legal considerations, for better than 99.999% of my motorcycle riding it wouldn't have mattered whether or not I was wearing a helmet. It's that darn other .001% that made wearing it seem like a good idea.

4. If you hold the knife by the handle, the choil will land on your forefinger, stop the knife from closing and eliminate almost all of the danger people are afraid of related to slipjoints. If it lands hard enough, it can hurt, especially if it lands on an arthritic knuckle. Not to mention that it only applies to slipjoints with a 50/50 choil, and only if you keep your finger in that choil. Closing a Bug, Honey Bee, or Grasshopper with oily hands can be exciting.

5. All locks can fail with misuse, slipjoints are predictable, you know it is going to fail. If all you ever use is slipjoints, that's a valid argument. OTOH, there are things that are perfectly safe and normal to do with a locking folder but dangerous to do with a slipjoint so switching between them carries greater risk than sticking to one or the other.

[ChrisR]

I love the Squeak. The spine of the blade is a little thick for some things. I need to cut some stuff near the tip because the width of the blade at the base will end up pulling things apart and ripping or breaking it in the process.

Good point - it is a bit thick for such a small blade - perhaps in another run it could be taken down to 2mm to make it a better apple/cheese slicer? :)

[Donut]

if a slipjoint is strong enough to stay open reasonably well then it's strong enough to cut you really badly when it accidentally closes on you, so many people get brutally cut by slipjoints when they snap shut, generally speaking a locker won't close anything like that hard, even big lockbacks

I have been cut by a few locking folders, but haven't been cut by a slipjoint yet. Your description makes me think you're talking about Swiss Army Style slipjoints.

what the f are you talking about

Nothing, apparently.

vic, you should be able to give us 1,000 specific reasons a slipjoint is good or bad, but you just say they are bad and give us zero reason. It seems like you are arguing, but giving NO information to support why your side is correct. You have said a lot so far, and all I can report is: He has made some interesting assumptions and he is _trying to stand by what he has assumed_.

Paul,

1. My G-10 UKPK's seem to have a stronger spring, but don't have a very strong pull when it will be dangerous. If I take my thumb and place it with the nail towards the edge at the point where it would "snap closed", there is a very low pull. I have cut myself with my Caly 3.5 by having my finger between the edge and the handle and not thinking of "how do I get my finger out without moving my finger around to let the edge work itself further into my finger?" At the end, it was only a 1/4" wide cut that went just through the skin.

2. The G-10 UKPK's don't have liners, have FFG blades, wire clips, and seem to have less steel in the lock.

3. If you try to predict when a slipjoint will be a better user and use it for those cases. I guess a large percent of users don't think of what they are going to do and how good the knife will be for that use. I can't make a perfect knife for every user that doesn't do anything to help himself. Better or worse isn't better or worse for every user or for every use, well... maybe one thing can be worse for every user and/or every use. Better for one user can be horrible for another user.

4. True. Having a knife close with a jimped choil will be unpleasant, but not as unpleasant as with an edge. I only have a grasshopper and don't use it that much, I'm sure you're right.

5. I guess you're right. When I grab a slipjoint, I prepare myself to be careful, but I've never had the lock slip while in use.


I typically carry only my G-10 UKPK to the gym every day. It is very light and the low ride clip makes it carry well with flexible shorts or pants even when I have NO pockets.