Does bolster add strength?

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jackknifeh
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Does bolster add strength?

#1

Post by jackknifeh »

The Sage4 with the titanium bolster feels very sturdy. It feels sturdier than my Sage1 even though I consider the Sage1 a very sturdy knife. I wouldn't call the Sage1 a hard use knife but the Sage4 feels solid enough that maybe it would hold up to the same tasks I'd use a Manix2 for (camping, hiking, hunting, etc.). Does the bolster being made of metal add strength to a knife with complete G-10 or FRN scales?

Same question for the Manbug G-10 compared to the Jester. Both have liners so do the bolsters add strength to the Manbug?

I mean strength that would prevent blade play after a lot of use, maybe a little bit of abuse. Let's say I abuse the knives. Would the bolsters provide additional strenth if I were using the knives to pry with and not develop more blade play than the G-10 scale knife?

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chuck_roxas45
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#2

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

I don't have the slightest idea about bolsters on knives Jack but this is what I found as the definition of bolster.

bolster [ˈbəʊlstə]
vb (tr)
1. (often foll by up) to support or reinforce; strengthen to bolster morale
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#3

Post by Evil D »

I don't know about strength, but my logic is that they cal help to prevent flex in the pivot area.
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#4

Post by The Deacon »

Thick metal certainly provides more support for the pivot than thin metal plus plastic, but whether that would make any practical difference is another matter. Would depend on the way the non-bolstered version was constructed and how it was engineered to fail. Unless the expected mode of failure was the pivot ripping out of the liners, I can't see where it would make any difference. It's more likely to be of practical benefit on pinned knives than those with a screw pivot.
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#5

Post by Pinetreebbs »

Seems like they protect the ends of the scales from chipping and wear, especially if they are bone or wood. Like Paul says, support of pivot pins that full bone or wood scales could not provide..
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#6

Post by buckthorn »

There was a discussion of this in the Traditional section of Bladeforums, particularly with regard to "shadow" knives. At least one person was of the opinion that bolsters could WEAKEN a knife because they interrupt the continuity of a structural component (the scales). I have no idea whether this makes sense. Just mentioning it in case someone wants to peruse the discussion that took place on Bladeforums. Sorry that I can't provide a link.
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The Word "BOLSTER" implies strength

#7

Post by JD Spydo »

Well I'm not a structural engineer but I can't see why a bolster wouldn't add strength to a folder. Just the definition of the word "BOLSTER" would be "to strengthen" according to my Merriam Webster's unabridged Dictionary.

They also do indeed add to the appearance of the folder as well. It's funny that you mention this because I was just talking to a friend the other day about Greg Lightfoot's older Microtech knife design where the bolster actually worked as a button/switch for the automatic version of the model.

I do think that the other guys are also right in their assessment that the bolsters will also prevent chipping and other types of damage that could occur to a knife during heavy and rough use. To me a Bolster always adds to a folder.
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#8

Post by redyps04 »

Sorry Jackknifeh, I would have to bet that any "strength" bolsters add with most knives is probably trivial at best. It's more for maybe a sturdy feeling, or perhaps the perception of a "higher quality" knife to some, but bolsters are generally added for appearances- not strength. However, I will say the bolsters on the Sage 4 probably add more strength than most, considering the bolsters cover close to half the knife and are reinforced with 2 separate pins.
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#9

Post by jackknifeh »

So the bolsters on the G-10 Manbug are there primarily for looks. It's the liners that would make it "stronger" than the FRN Manbug. I'm thinking the G-10 Manbug might be a little stronger than the Jester based on the Jester blade is 2mm thick and the Manbug is 2.5mm thick. That's 25% of the original thickness added to the Jester blade which is a pretty significant amount as far as upgrades go IMO. Will it make a big difference in performance? Dunno. Per Chuck's info the word bolster must have initially been chosen for that piece of the knife because it added strength. Or maybe the makers or salesmen used it as a selling point. Dunno again. :confused: :)

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redyps04
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#10

Post by redyps04 »

I have the Jester, and I can't imagine bending or breaking it. It's one sturdy little booger. Any bolsters added to it would just be a waste IMHO and I couldn't see it adding any noticeable strength. In the case of the Manbug I would have to say the driving reason behind adding bolsters was more aesthetic rather than a solution to a structural problem. It's kind of like Case knives. You don't NEED the bolsters for thier strength, but rather for thier beauty- especially when you look at the smaller knives like the Texas Toothpick. Bottom line is if bolsters added any sort of significant strength to a knife or had any significant functional value, we would have seen a bolstered Military or Manix for sure by now. In other words, it's all "show" and very little "go".
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#11

Post by The Deacon »

redyps04 wrote:I have the Jester, and I can't imagine bending or breaking it. It's one sturdy little booger. Any bolsters added to it would just be a waste IMHO and I couldn't see it adding any noticeable strength. In the case of the Manbug I would have to say the driving reason behind adding bolsters was more aesthetic rather than a solution to a structural problem. It's kind of like Case knives. You don't NEED the bolsters for thier strength, but rather for thier beauty- especially when you look at the smaller knives like the Texas Toothpick. Bottom line is if bolsters added any sort of significant strength to a knife or had any significant functional value, we would have seen a bolstered Military or Manix for sure by now. In other words, it's all "show" and very little "go".
Not going to argue that, but bolster can make a good knife look even better, at least to me...

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#12

Post by Blerv »

Usually knives like the Manbug, as tough as they are, are designed for more gentle tasks. That doesn't mean you can destroy a ton of cardboard, it just means you will be pushing and pulling it in a vertical cutting motion (or parallel to the pivot).

No folder is designed to pry. The pivot is physics kicking you right in the face. Some just do better than others. Even for those I would rather not do it...if it increases play even slightly it's not cool for me.
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#13

Post by mikerestivo »

I always thought that the bolsters were to protect the ends of the scales. For me it brings to mind the Buck 110's wood scales and brass bolsters. I never thought of the bolsters being used as added strength for the pivot.

Whoops - I didn't see that Pinetreebbs said the same thing.
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#14

Post by jossta »

Not sure if they add any, but I would be seriously surprised if they took away strength. Either way, they add a ton of awesomeness...

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#15

Post by angusW »

The Deacon wrote:Not going to argue that, but bolster can make a good knife look even better, at least to me...

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Whether bolsters add strength or not, those are really really nice looking Jesters.
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#16

Post by jackknifeh »

Final thought on this I think. If the bolsters on the Sage4 add any strength it would be because they are longer than the average bolster I've seen and there is an additional screw.

Of course any additional strength makes it ok to pry paint can lids off, pull nails using the spyderhole, remove hubcaps, etc. I'm sure this use would be considered normal use and fall under Spyderco's warranty. :rolleyes: :)

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BTW, my new Sage4 that I love so much took one of the biggest bites out of my finger yesterday. It happened real fast and without even looking I thought to myself "Oh sh**, that's a good one." I was right. Bandaged with paper towel and elec. tape. Too scared to go to ER. :o
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#17

Post by sal »

As Paul indicated, there's as lot more going on than just "bolster". Bolsters can add strength if they're made to do so. eg; material selection, tolerances of the pivot hole, Pivot material, heat treatment of bolster, engineering, etc. Spyderco's bolsters are stronger in some respects than FRN versions of the same model. Remember, there is always a trade-off. For bolsters, it's weight and cost.

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#18

Post by jackknifeh »

sal wrote:As Paul indicated, there's as lot more going on than just "bolster". Bolsters can add strength if they're made to do so. eg; material selection, tolerances of the pivot hole, Pivot material, heat treatment of bolster, engineering, etc. Spyderco's bolsters are stronger in some respects than FRN versions of the same model. Remember, there is always a trade-off. For bolsters, it's weight and cost.

sal
Thanks for the reply Sal. You mentioned things that I hadn't thought of, mainly the point "if they're made to do so". Of course that brings the question to my mind on any knife I'm interested in. Why a bolster on this knife? The Sage4 seems sturdy enough to be called a hard use knife (folder) to me though I haven't used it hard yet. If titanium provides more anti-flex strength than the wood and the fact that they are longer than an average bolster which dictates an additional screw I'd think they add strength.

My desire for strength is more for the long term durability over the strength for a single use (or abuse) of a knife. I wouldn't use a beautiful $160 knife for a task that may damage it when there are plenty of cheap, almost disposable, durable enough fixed blades out there. It's mainly the appearance of a beautiful knife that concerns me. I spent almost as much for the M4 Manix2 but since it's not a "beautiful" knife IMO I've gotten it plenty dirty.

I appreciate the effort you and the team go to in making fine knives (IMO). I'm no expert but I've only gotten 2 or 3 knives of other brands and some are fine knives but it seems the standard your knives set is the high-end of most other company's products along the same price. I appreciate your desire to try new steels as time passes. Most other companies I've been looking at for the past 6 years are still using the same steel now as then with a few exceptions.

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#19

Post by The Deacon »

I'm not Sal, but the logical answer regarding the Sage IV is that the bolsters are there, and the size they are, because that's how Al Mar's early knives which introduced that lock were constructed. Duplicating the look of the originals is part of the "homage to knife makers" concept that the Sage series represents.
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#20

Post by Blerv »

"hard use" is actually a four letter phrase :p .

I can certainly see models being stronger using one without. Often though they occlude the pivot from adjustment. Aesthetically a victory but not the best for tinkerers.

Bolsters are just classy for me. A notable feature for someone choosing to carry a quality folder that non-knife folks would consider extravagance.
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