Budget Mule! Ideas? Steel suggestions?

[DCDesigns]

Its been a while... But now Im back to waste more time talking to y'all losers... I kid I kid!

Ive been doing a whole lot of wood working lately, including a couple mules I plan to post once the finishing touches are done. Ive really enjoyed working on them, and collecting the different steels, then being able to use a badass wood one each one is downright addicting. I'd love to be able to work on 5 or 10 of them at a time, but I cant afford to spend$700-850 on mules.

I kick myself for not knowing about the Mule Team Project sooner, man if I had known from the beginning... I would have snatched up tons of the 9cr18mov Mules (as well as a bunch of the s90v's :mad :)

What I would like is another Mule, similar to the MT05 that sold at a $20 price point. Dont get me wrong, I love getting a taste of the Uber-steels, but I also think the Mule Team Project is a great vessel for some of the more "common place" steels we all know and love.

[toomzz]

How about a large production-amount-revival of the S90V mule? More makes cheaper. LOL!!!

Well, maybe an enhanced 440......

[phillipsted]

While I'd like to have a larger stock of Mules in my shop - I think this goes against Sal's objectives for the entire project, which is to have a test platform for new steels.

In addition, the Mule Team project probably isn't a big moneymaker for Spyderco, and in the case of the Cruwear Mule, I'm sure it cost Sal a bit of coin to bring it to market. Not to mention the fact that if Spyderco started mass-manufacturing Mules in less expensive steel, they would possibly cannibalize sales of its other fixed blades.

Personally, I like the program the way it is. Jantz sells a wide variety of less expensive knife blanks if you need quantity. :)

TedP

[araneae]

I had suggested a budget mule that would stay in production a while back. I thought using 8Cr13MoV would make for a very affordable, very marketable DIY blank. There has to be a market for a well made blank with a decent entry level steel. Sure there are lots of blanks on the market, but who knows what "440" mystery steel they are made of and how well they are heat treated.

[Mallus]

I've spoken for more affordable mules before and I repeat it now. AEB-L would be very nice with a good heat treat ( http://www.bestexcompany.com/parks/kniv ... ournal.pdf )! It's not new, that's for sure, but would be an interesting reference in what you could achieve without high carbon and high carbide volume.

The purpose of the Mule program, as I see it, is not only to get to play with some exotic, expensive stuff, but to get to know how and why things work. As such, I'd like to see how something that is from the very start designed for very low edge angles / high edge stability (AEB-L) would perform as opposed to yet another mega chunky high carbide monster (not that I don't like them also). I've read about carbides jumping out of the matrix and have observed it in S30V, wouldn't you be interested examining the opposite end of the spectrum?

Nitrobe 77 would also be very interesting, Des Horn speaks very highly of it ( http://www.sablade.com/forums/showthrea ... Nitrobe-77 ) but I don't know if it's still available in thicker stock. Compared to many other steels, it doesn't seem to be especially expensive (only source with prices I found, 1€/cm, albeit in 2mm thickness http://www.gobec.at/material.pdf ).

[JLS]

While I'd like to have a larger stock of Mules in my shop - I think this goes against Sal's objectives for the entire project, which is to have a test platform for new steels.

In addition, the Mule Team project probably isn't a big moneymaker for Spyderco, and in the case of the Cruwear Mule, I'm sure it cost Sal a bit of coin to bring it to market. Not to mention the fact that if Spyderco started mass-manufacturing Mules in less expensive steel, they would possibly cannibalize sales of its other fixed blades.

Personally, I like the program the way it is. Jantz sells a wide variety of less expensive knife blanks if you need quantity. :)

TedP

Well said. I'm not trying to pick on anyone and I don't think 10 blades is an obscene amount, but the whole Mule program could be ruined by speculators. No plan is perfect, but the current plan seems to be working very well.

All that being said, I would like to see another less expensive blade. The $20 Chinese Mule was a very easy sell to friends and co-workers. The $70+ blades are a much tougher sell, especially when you consider they still need on average $40+ to make it useful. I do have 3 friends getting the $60 Cruwear Mule. That's positive!

[rodloos]

I was just playing with one of my 9cr18mov mules last night! They were the first Mules available after i first learned about the Mule Team project. At their price point, I bought 4 of them to qualify for free shipping, and have bought a couple of each Mule since.

Out of all my Mules, I have only managed to make scales for one of them, in 9cr18mov. I think I have it comfortable, but it doesn't look real classy yet :) . I finally ordered several scales from Halpern Titanium just so I could get some handles on more of them, but I am kind of excited about making more handles myself.

I don't remember seeing anyone's feedback on how the 9cr18mov compared to the typical chinese 8cr13? Mine certainly takes a very sharp edge! I haven't cut any metal or rocks with it :) but I was making some very fine wood shavings with it last night, I am not disappointed in it at all.

Now I just need to develop my skills in making handles and sheaths!

[DCDesigns]

While I'd like to have a larger stock of Mules in my shop - I think this goes against Sal's objectives for the entire project, which is to have a test platform for new steels.

I didnt say it HAD to be a common steel, just an inexpensive one.

[araneae]

There's nothing wrong with 1095 carbon steel. And it's cheap.

[cckw]

Not a spyderco product, but check out the EnZo trapper they are sold as blade only. (ask dealers for a discount on multiples and it may hit your comfort zone) There are a couple other models. I use a trapper in D2 flat grind for deer and love it. Although the O1 scandi is the popular one in the bushcraft community.

Back on the Mule, I love the hot new steels and ignore the cheapies. My next two knife projects are to do an EnZo Elver (the small one) and an M390 Mule with some killer Burl wood, and on this one am going to rework the handle profile to better fit my own hand. or in other words, probably going to ruin it :)

[Blerv]

I would love to see one in a "crude" steel. Mainly it would be interesting to see something like 1095 treated properly by Spyderco in a Mule configuration. Not sure if as much could be learned but it would be fun for a relative comparison.

[xceptnl]

I would like to see a revival of the N690Co steel. I know the european exchange rate could kill the budget price, but this is truly an underrated steel.

[wquiles]

I am a new guy here, but I like the mule program just as it is today. I personally don't see any need to try to get "budget" steels to make the mule program more attractive - as somebody mentioned above, you can get steel blanks pretty cheap already on-line, so I would vote to keep the mule program "as is". If the next steel chosen happens to be "less costly", that should intrinsically should not be that critical a reason to select a steel for the mule program.

With the mule program as we have it today, we get to evaluate ("play") with new steels before they become mainstream/common, or some steels that have been around but hard to acquire in knife-friendly shape/form, etc. - some are expensive, some are not. If the steel is more "special", or rare, I will gladly pay more for it - most things in life work that way: you get that you pay for.

The mule program is also a great way for Spyderco to hear from us as to what we liked (or not) about some of these steels, so we basically become an "extended" testing group for Spyderco, which is a win-win for everyone involved. By trying to pick/select steels just because they are cheaper/less-expensive, the mule program (I feel) would loose focus on the "steel", which is what makes the mule program so interesting/successful.

My 2 cents worth.

Will

[Rwb1500]

I would love to see one in a "crude" steel. Mainly it would be interesting to see something like 1095 treated properly by Spyderco in a Mule configuration. Not sure if as much could be learned but it would be fun for a relative comparison.

+1.

Although I certainly understand why the Mule Team can't always be wallet friendly I would love to see something like this. I came to the Mule party late and playing catch up is tough.

[gaj999]

The nice thing about the $20 price point is that I wasn't afraid to go crazy with the bench grinder. That experience gave me the courage to do some reshaping on more expensive Mules.

Gordon

[The Mastiff]

With the cost of living and the dollars value I couldn't even think of any steel that could do a repeat of the 9C cost. The closest would be the 8C steels or other types used in China.

For american and european steels the cheapest will probably be something like 1084, 1095, Etc. The Tool steels and high speed steels are more expensive and cost more to process. There are a lot of steels to use but not much in the $25-35 dollar range.

For Sal to keep the mules as cheap as he has is pretty darn great IMO. A cruware mule at this price is a really great deal . It would be tough for me to put one together for that price and include any kind of labor costs. There's no getting maximum performance with most home made ovens with most of these complex alloys. That would mean sending it out for HT for me. It would be cheaper and easier overall to just buy mules for me even if I was back in a house with a shop and space to work.

[The Deacon]

If your primary interest is a woodworking platform, Sal has mentioned the possibility of Spyderco making a new line of kitchen cutlery in China and making them available both with and without handles.

[Sequimite]

Your best bet might be to lobby for another run of the Swick 2. That sold for $35 in S30V. In a less expensive steel perhaps you'd get a little closer to your $20 target.

[eloreno]

There's nothing wrong with 1095 carbon steel. And it's cheap.

I agree. I would love to see a 1095 mule.

[Blerv]

With the cost of living and the dollars value I couldn't even think of any steel that could do a repeat of the 9C cost. The closest would be the 8C steels or other types used in China.

This is a great point. To add not 100% of the Mule price is materials as I'm sure there are unseen factors that contribute to Spyderco at least breaking even.

On that basis a "premium" steel could be 10 times more costly (for Spyderco) than 1095 but that doesn't mean the Mule is 10 times the price.