ZDP-189? What's so special?

Gaussbay · #1

I saw this steel in some Enduras and and was wondering how it was so much better than VG-10. Anyone know?

chuck_roxas45 · #2

ZDP-189 is at Rc 64. Nuff said.

Orion's Belt · #3

I will hold an edge much, much longer that VG10. There are some trade-offs though. It will take longer to sharpen, be less corrosion resistant and more prone to chipping than
VG10.

Blerv · #4

Insanely high RC and a ton of carbon. It can take thin angles and is considered a "wear resistant" steel.

Mainly it's just to exotic option with many of the vg10 knives. Always good to have options.

-F1 · #5

...and much more expensive than VG-10.

Ankerson · #6

The ZDP-189 Endura 4 that I own and tested is at 65 HRC, it holds an edge very well.

Blerv · #7

-F1 wrote:...and much more expensive than VG-10.

Yea but a bargain for what you get. When you start at $60 you can crank the price 50% and it's quite reasonable; a ZDP-189 Dragonfly2 is dirt cheap. Start at $100 + and welcome to the stars.

Seki also is known for making some pretty thin factory blades with very acute edges.

JNewell · #8

Ankerson wrote:The ZDP-189 Endura 4 that I own and tested is at 65 HRC, it holds an edge very well.

Yeeeeow. :spyder:

-F1 · #9

Blerv wrote:Yea but a bargain for what you get. When you start at $60 you can crank the price 50% and it's quite reasonable

I guess a "bargain" is in the wallet of the beholder. I don't find a 50% price increase reasonable. But I don't care for non-stainless steels at all.

As for being "better", well it's better at corroding.

It has its place, I guess I just don't see it as a matter of "better" and "worse".

Blerv · #10

-F1 wrote:I guess a "bargain" is in the wallet of the beholder. I don't find a 50% price increase reasonable. But I don't care for non-stainless steels at all.

As for being "better", well it's better at corroding.

It has its place, I guess I just don't see it as a matter of "better" and "worse".

Well, it's not exactly an easy steel to work with. That and Hitachi has it under lock and key so while other ZDP folders exist they aren't common place. The ZT 0350 uses it and has a street price of about $170.

It IS a stainless steel. With the exception of mincing lemons or tomatoes and leaving the blade to rot I haven't heard of any corrosion problems. Not any more than S30v or 8Cr13Mov that is. It's H1 compared to M4 or Super Blue.

Everyone has to make their own choices. VG10 is a great steel that most people like for well-rounded qualities, ZDP-189 has a whopping 3% carbon and RC's in the mid 60's. That means for pure cutting performance it's better for low edges that last.

Overall "better" is based on opinion, the above is pretty fact based.

.357 mag · #11

I've owned a ZDP delica for a year now and I've found that I'm not a fan. I prefer VG-10.

chuck_roxas45 · #12

-F1 wrote:I guess a "bargain" is in the wallet of the beholder. I don't find a 50% price increase reasonable. But I don't care for non-stainless steels at all.

As for being "better", well it's better at corroding.

It has its place, I guess I just don't see it as a matter of "better" and "worse".

Yep, not better or worse but for a steelhead or a wannabe steelhead like me, it's all about different flavors.

Oh and my sharpest knife is my ZDP Endura beveled at 22 degrees inclusive. Not many steels can take that kind of acute angle.

MCM · #13

I have a few and much prefer it over VG-10.
The only place VG-10 is considered a super steel is on Kitchen knifes. LOL LOL

Its just a matter of how far down the Rabbit hole you are.
To me while VG-10 is just Meh, ZDP 189 is WOW.
RC 64/65 sign me up!

Steel snob, no excuses necessary or given.

chuck_roxas45 · #14

MCM wrote:
Steel snob, no excuses necessary or given.

Oh yeh, this! :D

-F1 · #15

Blerv wrote:It IS a stainless steel.

It's not even technically "steel", so how can it be "stainless steel"?

MCM · #16

No rust in 4 yrs?

chuck_roxas45 · #17

-F1 wrote:It's not even technically "steel", so how can it be "stainless steel"?

Well, it's a metal and it doesn't rust for some people. Alloyed Metal with iron that doesn't rust easily looks like stainless steel from where I'm standing.

-F1 · #18

OK, I'll notify Spyderco, who says:

Exotic Steels are generally accepted as steel, but by definition are not steel. Examples of Exotic Steels include H1, ZDP-189, Talonite and Titanium.

I'm dropping off this thread because I know how these things work out. I don't get religious about how Fe and C atoms are arranged... I wear a tungsten carbide ring that's almost as hard as diamond, whoopee!

Blerv · #19

-F1 wrote:It's not even technically "steel", so how can it be "stainless steel"?

Yay, definition pissing contests! :D

Here's another one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Cheaper, more rust resistant, ZDP-189 is not considered "steel". You win.

Blerv · #20

Gaussbay wrote:I saw this steel in some Enduras and and was wondering how it was so much better than VG-10. Anyone know?

Back on track.

It's a great material as is VG-10 but trades some well-rounded qualities (corrosion/stain resistance, ease of sharpening, cost, and likely some toughness) for exceedingly high strength (ie hardness) and wear resistance.

In the end you have a product that will take thinner angles without the tenancy to deform. If chipping is controlled you should have vastly better edge holding given the same conditions.

Neither is "better" but for some applications either can be a more suitable fit. With VG-10's ability to take a great edge and hold it a considerable amount of time either will suit the average user quite well.

Definitions referenced from: http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml