Spyderco vs CRK?

[Vicinadp]

I own a bunch of spydies but i was wondering are Chris Reeve knives like the sabenza really worth 3 to 4 times the prices of a good spydie like the Sage 2? Or is it just the name on the knife that increases the price tag?

[chuck_roxas45]

uh-oh....

[Jordan]

Well, lemme ask you this... I own a Buck 110. Is it really worth it to spend 2-3 times more on a military or is it just the bug on the blade that inflates the price :p .

Eye of the beholder bud, no other real answer.

[Blerv]

The tolerances on the CRK are tighter as the knife are typicially classified as "semi-customs". This also means production is slower and costs are higher.

Is it worth it? I think his knives are very special and worth every penny (not that I own one). It has said if Spyderco wanted to have similar tolerances the cost to make would be very close.

Personally I think performance wise Spyderco typicially wins out as its the focus. Locks, materials, ergos over looks, etc. The Sage2 for example has a opening hole, thumb ramp, sculpted handle and flat-ground blade. It lacks the custom touch tho and the matching price tag.

[chuck_roxas45]

Is it worth it? I think his knives are very special and worth every penny (not that I own one). It has said if Spyderco wanted to have similar tolerances the cost to make would be very close.

This.

[gbelleh]

CRK is pretty much the only other production knife brand that I still buy and use other than Spyderco. CRK's quality and tolerances are excellent, and they are a joy to own and use. But whether they're worth the cost is an individual opinion.

[Ankerson]

I own a bunch of spydies but i was wondering are Chris Reeve knives like the sabenza really worth 3 to 4 times the prices of a good spydie like the Sage 2? Or is it just the name on the knife that increases the price tag?

I own 2 CRK Umnumzaans and a bunch of Spydercos, Customs, Busses and other knives. :spyder:

Worth is a matter of preference.

What is usually in my pocket most of the time?

You will find a Spyderco in my pocket 99% of the time. :cool:

[Muad'Dib]

It has said if Spyderco wanted to have similar tolerances the cost to make would be very close.

I wouldn't mind if Spyderco had a product line like this available. Even though I see the lack of logic in it, I am a pretty brand loyal person, and as far as knives Spyderco is my brand of choice.

[wquiles]

Yes, I think the CRK's are worth the price - very well made, they work very well, and a joy to use. Although not an apples-to-apples comparison, in terms of best value, and excellent ergonomics, I feel Spyderco is a better deal:





I also feel that some of the Axis BM's are good (specially for a lefty as myself).

Will

[DCDesigns]

I am admittedly biased. But I think Chris's knives are phenomenal. Buy one with snakewood on it .

But seriously, The attention to detail, the materials, the workmanship and the tolerances are pretty much in league with some customs. When you consider this, they are a bargain.

[Vicinadp]

I was looking to get one but I feel i wouldnt want to use it in my EDC in fear of damaging it because of the price

[ValueKnifeLover]

uh-oh....

This was exactly what ran through my head as I read the OP :p

[chuck_roxas45]

This was exactly what ran through my head as I read the OP :p

Yes, but I then I didn't take into consideration the maturity of the people here. I'm glad the thread took this direction.

[quattrokid73]

I only own three brands of knife:

Spyderco
Chris Reeve
Bark River

Reasons? Quality, design, and beauty. Great stuff. CRK knives are expensive for a reason. I hope it never changes. Spyderco offers various models at different price points. I tell you though that some of my Spydies are up there close to CRK's tolerances.

BRKT knives appeal to me because they are so classic, simple, and have wickedly cool looks.

[DCDesigns]

Yes, but I then I didn't take into consideration the maturity of the people here. I'm glad the thread took this direction.

I agree man. The whole "Is the sebenza worth it" arguement is a classic troll topic.

[MCM]

Buy one and find out.
I did 10 yrs ago.
Still have it. LG BG 42.
But, its funny. I had to have one! And love it!
But only have the one.....
Not the case with Spyderco & others. :)

[defenestrate]

You can look at a :spyder: and see that the knife has been engineered for reliable performance. Few production makers rival :spyder: in technical utilitarian purpose.. I seem to recall Sal talking about Tractors not having to look like Ferraris. You can pay a lot more to have tolerances like a Sebenza or an Ummnumzan, but many people find Spyderco's prices to be about as appropriate as any other maker if not more appropriate, and with the Spyderco name most find that they have purchased a knife that will serve them for a lifetime.

[The Deacon]

The tolerances on the CRK are tighter as the knife are typicially classified as "semi-customs". This also means production is slower and costs are higher.

Is it worth it? I think his knives are very special and worth every penny (not that I own one). It has said if Spyderco wanted to have similar tolerances the cost to make would be very close.

Personally I think performance wise Spyderco typicially wins out as its the focus. Locks, materials, ergos over looks, etc. The Sage2 for example has a opening hole, thumb ramp, sculpted handle and flat-ground blade. It lacks the custom touch tho and the matching price tag.

Agree totally.

Will just add that, if you mostly just play with your knives, your great-grandchildren will still be able to play with your CRK, while your kids might wear out your Sage II. On the other hand and assuming S30V in the CRK, if you mostly use your knives, you'll use up both blades in about the same length of time.

I own a Mnandi. To me it is an exceptionally well made knife and well worth its price due to the materials and the level of craftsmanship. On the other hand, I rarely carry it, as I find the Spyderhole opener on a Kiwi easier to use.

[Zenith]

Well, here is some food for thought, or just some good reading material regarding tight tolerances, that CRK is renowned for, locks and high dollar knives that Sal Glesser, owner of Spyderco has mentioned through the years on the forums (ps, search is your friend).

Another thing to remember is that the Manufacturing Quality award that CRK has won so many times are not chosen by a panel, it is voted for by fellow knife makers. Even Bob Dozier, a very established maker in his own right has CRK pocket knives and I love his motto of : if it feels like climbing through a barbed wire fence, there is something wrong. Slim, sleek and simple knives.

A few weeks back, in this thread, someone asked if there was a Spyderco which could compete with the Sebenza. Sal eventually chimed in. His post was primarily a response to someone's skepticism regarding the origins of the framelock. He noted that he had, in his personal collection, a Chris Reeve knife with an earlier lock of Chris' called the "Lock 45". He further noted that it dated back to the 1970's and was the predecessor of the Reeve Integral Lock. That lead to someone asking what it looked like, at which point he suggested sending it to me to be photographed. He also noted in a later post that it was a small knife. It arrived a couple days ago and he wasn't kidding about its size. For the benefit of those who like "dimensional data" it weighs 1.375 ounces (40 grams) has a closed length of 2 13/16" (71 mm), a blade length of 2 7/32" (57mm) with a 2 1/16" (52mm) cutting edge, and is 5/16" (8mm) thick. For those who find photographic comparisons easier to visualize, the first photo below shows it with a Kiwi and my LH Mnandi.

Beyond that, it's an intriguing design. The action is glassy smooth and the lock up is rock solid despite the fact that the blade is only supported from one side. The small thumb stud and smooth handle, thin on the off side, make it difficult to open, but might be less of a problem for someone right handed and with better motor skills. No clip, that was probably not even a gleam in Sal's eye yet. I'm assuming the handle is titanium anodized to a bronze hue but that, and any other questions regarding it would best be answered by Sal, or someone intimately familiar with Chris Reeve's early knives.

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Closed, lock side:
[CENTER][/CENTER]

close up, to show one of the two ball bearings:

[CENTER][/CENTER]

The balls do not serve as detents, just to smooth the action. Only friction holds the blade closed.

Another close up, note the angled locking surfaces on the blade...

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Lock side view, half open. You can almost see the lower ball bearing:

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Top view, almost fully open:

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Fully open, lock side:

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Finally, the design does have one peculiarity, you can fold the blade in the wrong direction, at least until the thumb stud makes contact with the frame...

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

Well, I cannot speak for Chris Reeve Knives, but I will offer an opinion.

I've known Chris and Ann for many years. We worked together when Chris was in South Africa.

A CRK knife is not a custom knife, nor is it a production knife. They are in a class by themselves. They've taken many years to develop their reputation.

Each piece is custom made by skilled custom makers. CRK tolerances and standards are the highest I've seen in processes like surface grinding and heat treat. There is a limit to their production capacity.

Chris is pretty anal on quality. "Quality is time. = Time is money". He pays his craftsmen a fair wage, and he charges a fair margin, he gives the world a product like no other. Chris and Ann work hard and they make a good living. "Enormous profits" is an inside joke that Chris and I laugh about. Frankly, I think they'd feel guilty if they made too much money.

The "Market" will determine if his business strategies work, regardless of what they are. If they don't work, adjustments are made....that's how businesses survive.

BTW, the flip side of a "bargain driven" market is manufacturers are forced to import product (export jobs) from China to compete in the need for the "lower price". More complications.

sal

Hi Dulleddown,

More profit is usually associated with higher price. That's normal. Profit is usually a percentage of sales price. To think that a high priced auto should garner the same proft as a low priced auto is not in accord with business. It might be the same percentage, but being more expensive, it will be more profit.

Unless you are a manufacturer, familiar with close tolerance manufacturing of heat treated steel & Titanium parts, you are not likely to be able to see all of the differences between one of Chris' knives and others. For example; CRK keeps 0.0005 tolerance on surface grinding. That's one sixth the thickness of a hair. Do you have the knowledsge and equipment to discover that tolerance?

In the end, it's all about trust. CRK took many years to build and maintain their repuation. Built with consistent focus. Even those trying to make a "cheaper" version must "leave out processes" or "soften their tolerance", or they will cost as much.

Rarely do you pay for the "name". That's a bullshit sales pitch made up by the ignorant claiming to offer the same for less. Money valuation between countries might offer a "deal" for a while until the money value balances, but all in all, you will get what you pay for.

sal

-----------------------------------------------------

Just because you can't see the difference doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means you can't see it.

Hi GWLee,

The benefit of tight tolerances is usually for long term durability as well as smooth function. Long term durability is difficult to determine in a short term decision. That's why reputation is important.

sal

Nice video.

High dollar knives are high dollar because they cost more to make. It might be materials (Titanium, unubtanium, etc.), it might be tolerances (Chris' has lotsa zeros after the decimal before hitting numbers), it might be labor (carving, engraving, etc.).

Sometmes those differences are difficult if not impossible for even the trained eye to detenct, generally impossible for a new student.

Just because you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there, sometimes it just means you can't see it. :D

sal

At the same time there are many people that feel the knife is not worth it, I did until I read Sal Glesser's comments and bought one myself after 3 years of saving (the knife was later taken in a mugging) and I was UTTERLY UNDERWHELMED when I bought it, even though I handled it before hand I just felt like owning something of true quality for the first time in my life (like a good quality car/suite/watch/camera). Until I used it non stop, on the farm etc and everything just started "flowing" and making sence. I replaced the stolen knife with an Insingo. I will always have a CRK and they retail for around $625 here. They are, for me at least, worth it and my personal connection, what the Sebenza has meant in my life, makes it special for me.

I have rambled a bit, but I hope some of what I have said has helped you to form your own opinion on the matter.

[vic]

Well, lemme ask you this... I own a Buck 110. Is it really worth it to spend 2-3 times more on a military or is it just the bug on the blade that inflates the price :p .

Eye of the beholder bud, no other real answer.

at least he's comparing 2 ti framelocks which are comparable in design and materials

buck 110 and spyderco military not so much