steels... will i notice?

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
casey1
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:29 pm

steels... will i notice?

#1

Post by casey1 »

I take good care of my delica. haven't had an issue with the vg-10. i can get it shaving sharp and don't mind sharpening it. i have a sharpmaker. the question is this: will i notice a difference between the vg10 ffg and zdp ffg if i don't change the angles? wondering if it's worth the extra cash

also: would i really notice the difference between s30v and vg-10? i don't intend to "put it to the test." i mean to use if for edc.
User avatar
razorsharp
Member
Posts: 3066
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:41 pm
Location: New Zealand

#2

Post by razorsharp »

Im pretty sure you would notice, ZDP is very very hard, sharpening will be different (harder and feel different). Edge holding will be out of this world compared to it. If you have a sharpmaker, I recommend 30 degrees at the edge.

S30v will also be harder to sharpen, not as hard as ZDP, and will hold a working edge for a long, long tome . It will lose the crazy razor edge faster and hold a working one for ages, I also recommend 30 at the edge.

Imo, ZDP will be better. And takes a crazy keen edge
.357 mag
Member
Posts: 1258
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:29 pm

#3

Post by .357 mag »

I have vg-10 and ZDP and I like vg-10 better. With what I cut, vg-10 holds its "razor" edge a little longer than ZDP. ZDP does hold a longer working edge but I touch up my knives right after they lose that high end edge. I like vg-10 because it sharpens easier and faster.

I don't care for ZDP as much as I thought I would.
casey1
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:29 pm

#4

Post by casey1 »

how crazy fast does s30v lose the edge? like a few cuts?
User avatar
Blerv
Member
Posts: 11833
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 11:24 am

#5

Post by Blerv »

casey1 wrote:I take good care of my delica. haven't had an issue with the vg-10. i can get it shaving sharp and don't mind sharpening it. i have a sharpmaker. the question is this: will i notice a difference between the vg10 ffg and zdp ffg if i don't change the angles? wondering if it's worth the extra cash

also: would i really notice the difference between s30v and vg-10? i don't intend to "put it to the test." i mean to use if for edc.
Spyderco's come sharpened to a pretty low factory angle. The Delica one of the lower angles and thinner blades. For this reason from the box a ZDP-189 Spydie seems to come a tad sharper. Maybe they just hold the initial sharpness better. If you're gonna keep a working angle on it both are about the same besides edge lasting but it depends on what you're cutting.

I almost always defer to ZDP-189 for FRN knives (besides H1) as the cost your paying is minimal for the performance and usually you get something else like a blue or green handle. :)
casey1 wrote:how crazy fast does s30v lose the edge? like a few cuts?
It's a fairly toothy steel. Doesnt typically have the polish of VG-10/ZDP-189. It holds a working edge at a normal angle for a long time tho. If you could get a Delica in CPM-S30v and compare it to the Delica in VG-10 they would cut about the same amount of time between sharpenings...maybe 10%ish more for the CPM-S30v.
User avatar
DCDesigns
Member
Posts: 1015
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: ATL, Ga.
Contact:

#6

Post by DCDesigns »

Sv30 will hold an edge for a LONG TIME, it just doesnt seem to keep that hair shaving edge as long. I could be wrong but I think this is down to the size of the particles in the steel. As mentioned s30v is a toothy steel, its working edge (which will work for almost any edc task) last a very long time. It is not too bad to sharpen either.

With ZDP, you have to remember you are dealing with an extremely hard, high carbon steel. You have to pay a lot more attention to where the bevel is hitting the stone, because it can only remove VERY small amounts of steel at a time. If you are not consistent, you will end up with an edge with many facets.
Spook410
Member
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:34 am
Location: New Mexico

#7

Post by Spook410 »

I like FFG knives. They are better slicers. Don't need the purported extra strength in a saber grind. Still, I can live with either.

Will a FFG in a harder steel get more actual work done compared to your VG10? Probably not. VG10 is great in that it's relatively easy to sharpen and stays sharp pretty well.

Some find that S30V is a pain to sharpen relative to the gain in edge holding over VG10. I don't and I like S30V just fine.

ZDP 189 is different animal. Depending on your sharpening tools you may not like it. It's quite hard. However, it's very cool the way it stays sharp. You'll notice it staying sharp and as a knife aficionado, this will bring you some enjoyment. Sometimes technology is cool because it is.. not because it meets a previously unmet requirement.

Of course, you could just get DMT diamond stones and you're good to go whatever comes along.
User avatar
Fifteen54
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:34 pm

#8

Post by Fifteen54 »

Indeed. My two cents is pretty much what everyone else is saying.

VG-10 is great stuff and takes that super nice hair popping edge because of the vanadium in it. It also keeps it quite well even at acute angles. I would venture to say slightly better than 154CM. All around it is my personal favorite stainless, purely because it is easy to maintain and can take that hair popping edge so quickly. Also responds to stropping very well.

S30V is a very tough and abrasion resistant steel. Yes it is more time consuming to sharpen and has the drawback of losing a stupid sharp edge quickly. Maybe due to micro chipping? In any case I like S30v quite a bit for harder use knives because of its "working" edge retention. It also happens to be more stain resistant. It is the wide standard now a days for "premium" steel.

ZDP-189 is super hard steel. I am not too sure of it's composition but from owning the ZDP-189 stretch and endura I can say it holds a superb edge for a long time and I do mean a LONG time. Another upside is that you can get away with very acute angles due to it's toughness. The drawback of course is that it is very time consuming and somewhat difficult to get a really nice edge on it.

IMHO they are all great steels, it really depends on your usage of the knife. If you are going to cut abrasive things all day long it would behove you to spend the extra money and shoot for ZDP-189 or S30V. If you want something for basic EDC usage there is nothing wrong with good old VG-10.

Of course these are all generalities, different companies have different heat treats and such so as with anything, YMMV.
You can tell a lot about a person by how they keep their knives.
User avatar
chuck_roxas45
Member
Posts: 8776
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: Small City, Philippines

#9

Post by chuck_roxas45 »

Would you notice? That all depends on how much you have to cut. If you just cut a few packets and envelopes, some food packaging, etc. I doubt that you will notice. Sharpening might be another matter though. VG-10 is a dream to sharpen, S30V takes a little more time, and ZDP takes more time and somewhat better technique(really light strokes).
Post Reply