ZDP-189 Delica's now Hollow Ground?

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Fred Sanford
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ZDP-189 Delica's now Hollow Ground?

Postby Fred Sanford » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:24 pm

I just noticed at Knifeworks that they show a BRG D4 in ZDP-189 with a HG blade. Is this new or going to be 'phased in' or what?

I know that some of the ZDP models were flat saber grinds and then they went to full flat grinds, now are they going to go to saber hollow grind?

I think for the Endura and Delica that anything is better than the flat saber grind. I'll take FFG or saber hollow grind any day. :)
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Postby SolidState » Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:49 am

I just ordered one and got an FFG. I would be surprised if they went back, but it would be a pleasant surprise. I'll wait on the :spyder: crew to chime in. It may just be a typo where they meant FFG.
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Fred Sanford
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Postby Fred Sanford » Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Any news on this? Seems like there could be a reason but I am not sure. Hmm...
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Postby Rutgrr » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:31 am

When I bought my ZDP Delica on Ebay from Poorfish the photo shown was Hollow Grind. When I got it in the mail it was FFG. I believe it is just a case of people not using the right photos.
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Postby INFRNL » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:49 am

I do not recall when they switched but all the new delicas are FFG now. If you can find the old ones; you will get Hollow ground. Guess it depends on where you order from. I am not sure the exact reasoning either; maybe too many complaints, save costs rather than making 2 different versions. I'm pretty sure FFG is the most popular in any knife they make; so it seems for feasable to just make FFG, IDK

I think everyone just didnt feel like updating the pics.

they may end up doing something similar on the manix 2. I know they are switching manix to s30v, but not sure if/when they will make them ffg.

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Postby Fred Sanford » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:18 am

Sorry guys but the old ones were not hollow ground. They were flat saber ground. The newer ones are full flat ground. Hollow saber ground would be like the grind on the SS delica 4's which is why I wonder.

Also the picture deliberately shows a hollow saber grind and not a flat saber grind.
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Postby Blerv » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:34 am

I'd die for a HG one in zdp. A Stretch or Cento even better.
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Postby Fred Sanford » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:53 am

Blerv wrote:I'd die for a HG one in zdp. A Stretch or Cento even better.
Me too, that's why I wanna know. Waiting to hear back from Knifeworks as to what they are. :)
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Postby Rwb1500 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:04 am

David Lowry wrote:Sorry guys but the old ones were not hollow ground. They were flat saber ground. The newer ones are full flat ground. Hollow saber ground would be like the grind on the SS delica 4's which is why I wonder.

Also the picture deliberately shows a hollow saber grind and not a flat saber grind.
Call me stupid, but what.is the difference between a hollow and flat.saber.grind?

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Postby Evil D » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:14 am

Rwb1500 wrote:Call me stupid, but what.is the difference between a hollow and flat.saber.grind?
I don't think there is such a thing as a "flat saber grind"...that's sort of using two terms at the same time. A saber grind is just flat ground about 1/3 to a half way up the blade. The term "high flat grind" gets thrown around too but to me that's just a high saber grind. Hollow grind is ground in the same way as a saber grind but instead of being flat on the sides where it's ground, it's concave inward on each side. Most combo edge knives are hollow ground because it's easier to grind the serrations into because the edge is thinner...if you ground them on a saber grind the bevel on the serrations would be super wide.
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Postby Fred Sanford » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:22 am

Evil D wrote:I don't think there is such a thing as a "flat saber grind"...that's sort of using two terms at the same time. A saber grind is just flat ground about 1/3 to a half way up the blade. The term "high flat grind" gets thrown around too but to me that's just a high saber grind. Hollow grind is ground in the same way as a saber grind but instead of being flat on the sides where it's ground, it's concave inward on each side. Most combo edge knives are hollow ground because it's easier to grind the serrations into because the edge is thinner...if you ground them on a saber grind the bevel on the serrations would be super wide.
Actually my terms are accurate. ;)

A saber grind just means half way up the blade (or there about). You can have a saber grind that is hollow or flat.

You can have a full hollow grind as well which is all the way to the spine.

As far as I know all of the FRN D4's were all flat saber ground until they went full flat. The SS D4's have always been hollow saber ground.
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Postby Evil D » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:29 am

David Lowry wrote:Actually my terms are accurate. ;)

A saber grind just means half way up the blade (or there about). You can have a saber grind that is hollow or flat.

You can have a full hollow grind as well which is all the way to the spine.

As far as I know all of the FRN D4's were all flat saber ground until they went full flat. The SS D4's have always been hollow saber ground.
I've never heard it explained that way. I know there's full hollow grind but i can't think of one knife with it, at least not without a very small portion of flat side at the spine. At some point it's splitting hairs...at what point does a saber grind stop and a high flat/hollow grind start?
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Postby Blerv » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:58 am

Flat-saber is an industry term and always how I've heard the D/E described. Besides the FFG and HG that is.

For example, read this:

http://m.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=227
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Postby Fred Sanford » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:18 pm

Blerv, your link goes to a live page that changes with every visit. ;)



Here is Spyderco's explanation:

http://www.spyderco.com/edge-u-cation/knifeanatomy.php

Scroll down to the bottom.
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Postby Blerv » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:33 pm

Dumb phone, sorry.

I linked the Delica Wave description as it describes "flat-saber". Im guessing it does it for all the similar Endura and Delica models.
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Postby sal » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:44 pm

We've also used terms that we've not heard before but we use them to try to describe the grinds.

Our ZDP models wend from a "flat saber" (flat ground about half way) to a full flat. (flat ground to the spine). We've not done a hollow ground ZDP.

sal

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Postby JacksonKnives » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:57 pm

TBH, the Spyderco page is probably the worst description of them all, since it adds "(scandi)" which is something different again. ("Zero Grind Saber (Scandi)" at the bottom of the page is fine.)

Saber grind is called such because it resembles the grind of a saber (shocking, I know...)--flat bevels around halfway up the blade. "Flat saber" is redundant, but not inaccurate. "Hollow saber" is descriptive, but we're starting to mix terms. "High/full saber" is just silly--that's a flat-ground blade (or a "full-flat-grind.") Hollow Ground means you've used a contact wheel to do your grinding, and can give lots of shapes, but a "high hollow" usually describes a hollow that goes within 25% of the distance to the spine.

In any case, the question has been answered...
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Postby Fred Sanford » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:45 pm

Thank you Sal and Jackson Knives. Much appreciated. :)
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