Spyderco Forums

Hi Nozh,

Thought I'd take this to a different thread. The recall thread is to serve another purpose.

I've known you on the forums for many years now. I would guess that you are anal retentive (as am I), obsessive / compulsive (as am I) and I think that with your Russian heritge and my Latvian heritage, we could probably argue over drinks and knives for hours. Yell at each other, and have a great time. :D

I would like to say that I respect your passion and your knowledge of edges and steels, though at times I may not agree with you. :p

On the Mule team fiasco; I recognize and understand your frustration. You might also imagine mine. As everyone here, you are a valuable member or our esteemed forum. Naturally we would like your opinions, as others, but I would request that you try to consider that we too are people. Occassionally we make mistakes, though not very often considering all that we do. When we do, we own up to it and try to make amends.

Sometimes your methods of communication might be perceived as hostile or combative. I don't think you mean to come off that way. I believe that you visit our forum because you basicically like our products and what we do. The others visiting here are here for the same reason. It is important that we "play nice in the sandbox". That way we we all get the the opportunity to learn and share our thoughts and opinions on this interesting hobby that we share.

sal

Hi Sal,

Although I dont know you personally, I hope you dont mind me calling you Sal. One of the many reasons I enjoy forums is that everyone gets to speak and be heard or ignored. That was well written and speaks volumes as to how we can all be at times. In this new age of computers its easy to come off HEAVY and maybe not intended. You are a true gentleman and respect this post and the people who may read it as well. Nice Job Sal !!!!! John :)

BTW this forum has become one of my favorites. John :D

Sal you have already done more than the right thing in relation to this issue...It's time not to lose anymore sleep over it...my suggestion...let it go and so will the other guy....we are beating a more than dead horse here....I refused to enter into banter during the other thread, I have a tendency to add fuel to the fire when fired up (maybe it's my Russian Heritage)...so I'm trying to be good here....I think I'm going to have to report this thread...LOL...No sense opening Pandora's Box all over again....My best to all concerned....Doc :D

I think its a good idea to try and channel his psychotic ramblings into another thread that is not a sticky. Bravo for that Sal! Although the creation of this thread is indeed "feeding the troll."

sal wrote:Hi Nozh,

Thought I'd take this to a different thread. The recall thread is to serve another purpose.

I've known you on the forums for many years now. I would guess that you are anal retentive (as am I), obsessive / compulsive (as am I) and I think that with your Russian heritge and my Latvian heritage, we could probably argue over drinks and knives for hours. Yell at each other, and have a great time. :D

I would like to say that I respect your passion and your knowledge of edges and steels, though at times I may not agree with you. :p

On the Mule team fiasco; I recognize and understand your frustration. You might also imagine mine. As everyone here, you are a valuable member or our esteemed forum. Naturally we would like your opinions, as others, but I would request that you try to consider that we too are people. Occassionally we make mistakes, though not very often considering all that we do. When we do, we own up to it and try to make amends.

Sometimes your methods of communication might be perceived as hostile or combative. I don't think you mean to come off that way. I believe that you visit our forum because you basicically like our products and what we do. The others visiting here are here for the same reason. It is important that we "play nice in the sandbox". That way we we all get the the opportunity to learn and share our thoughts and opinions on this interesting hobby that we share.

sal

We are all folks that are in most cases are seperated by many miles and experiences. I hear and feel Sal's response and respect. Universal respect is what we should all strive for.

I haven't read that thread further than the first page. Sounds like avoiding it would be good as while I respect Spyderco's honesty drama gets me wound up .

Let's all continue to remember the Mule project is a test bed for steels in a pre-production environment. They aren't all going to be perfect hence not having scales and the "What is the Mule Team?" spiel on every one sold. However, unlike joining a drug testing group it won't cause hair loss, depression, cold sweats, or sudden death.

Cup = half full.

Spyderco employees are the reason I stick around. If it wasn't for them, I'd have sold off my remaining Spydies and dedicated all my time/money towards customs.

A few production models come out every now and then that I really like, but for the most part, I try to buy from people/companies I like and want to support.

Why on earth would someone give you a hard time for the mule screw-up? You could have just as easily written it off as a lousy steel or made some other excuse and probably gotten away with it. I can think of a few other prominent American knife companies who have released improperly heat treated products and didn't even bother to bat an eye let alone proffer an excuse. The fact that Spyderco would front the cost of recalling all the knives I think really speaks to their character, and while some people might find it inconvenient and I'm sure someone in QC is sharing their bed with a horses head, the fact of the matter is that the real loser here is Spyderco. Recalling all those knives and re-heat treating the ones which could maybe still be resold is no small feat. How many will come back in such poor shape they can't be sold again? How much for all the shipping losses and refinishing costs? What about all the negative publicity for making a mistake? Yeah its ugly and inconvenient for us the users, but that can't possibly compare to how inconvenient it must be for Spyderco.

hunterseeker5 wrote:Why on earth would someone give you a hard time for the mule screw-up? You could have just as easily written it off as a lousy steel or made some other excuse and probably gotten away with it. I can think of a few other prominent American knife companies who have released improperly heat treated products and didn't even bother to bat an eye let alone proffer an excuse. The fact that Spyderco would front the cost of recalling all the knives I think really speaks to their character, and while some people might find it inconvenient and I'm sure someone in QC is sharing their bed with a horses head, the fact of the matter is that the real loser here is Spyderco. Recalling all those knives and re-heat treating the ones which could maybe still be resold is no small feat. How many will come back in such poor shape they can't be sold again? How much for all the shipping losses and refinishing costs? What about all the negative publicity for making a mistake? Yeah its ugly and inconvenient for us the users, but that can't possibly compare to how inconvenient it must be for Spyderco.

Nozh will not understand that. Thats why this thread is just to distract him from his continued irrational argument on the sticky page.

DCDesigns wrote:Nozh will not understand that. Thats why this thread is just to distract him from his continued irrational argument on the sticky page.

Don't knock the man when he isn't here.

Nozh is a steel connoisseur who also has certain communications issues. I find his attitude off-putting, personally (wine snobs, and all other snobs, also get under my skin...). But Sal can tolerate Nozh's demeanor, on Spyderco's own forums, and is reaching out to the guy.

I could learn a thing or two from Sal's approach.

I really enjoy the honest dialog on this forum, love the Spyderco products, appreciate the dedication of the staff, and greatly admire the gentlemanly conduct of the Proprietor.

You've got a loyal customer for life, Sal.

TedP

You know I just read through that entire miserable recall thread, EVERY LAST WORD OF IT. I think I've figured out the problem between Nozh and Spyderco. Nozh hasn't a clue what running a company is actually like. Its funny just how obvious it is now thinking back over the hundreds maybe thousands of his posts I've seen over the years. He looks at things from a strictly customer centric perspective. I've actually dealt with customers like him before, and they're a nightmare. They just don't understand the other side of the coin so to speak. I think everyone should have to work or intern higher up in a company at some point in their life because we're all customers and it can be really quite difficult to understand what these "faceless companies" are thinking and doing until you see the gears of the leviathan turning. Perhaps my comments will go unread or misunderstood, but I'd invite Nozh to take some time to understand these companies before he offers further comment on Spyderco's conduct.

Edit: Withdrawn out of respect

The debate goes on......ho hum.......yawns.....I hate this when the horse is already dead...One more Yay! or Nay!....for the good team.....Let's let it go....Doc :)

Blerv wrote:Connoisseur?

No insult intended but that is debatable. Others in the steel world (many from our own forum) test blades without pushing people away or making them feel stupid.

Funny thing about facts...you don't have to yell them.

I'm pretty sure if you look back through the forum archives, you'll see that Nozh and I don't get along -- at all. That doesn't mean it's wrong to respect Sal for his diplomatic approach.

hunterseeker5 wrote:Why on earth would someone give you a hard time for the mule screw-up? You could have just as easily written it off as a lousy steel or made some other excuse and probably gotten away with it. I can think of a few other prominent American knife companies who have released improperly heat treated products and didn't even bother to bat an eye let alone proffer an excuse. The fact that Spyderco would front the cost of recalling all the knives I think really speaks to their character, and while some people might find it inconvenient and I'm sure someone in QC is sharing their bed with a horses head, the fact of the matter is that the real loser here is Spyderco. Recalling all those knives and re-heat treating the ones which could maybe still be resold is no small feat. How many will come back in such poor shape they can't be sold again? How much for all the shipping losses and refinishing costs? What about all the negative publicity for making a mistake? Yeah its ugly and inconvenient for us the users, but that can't possibly compare to how inconvenient it must be for Spyderco.

I have to disagree that Spyderco comes off as a loser in this case. I'm sure that it is a financial burden but the fact that they are going to the lengths they are to make sure their product is first class, and to take care of their customers makes them look like superstars from where I sit.

I never had interest in the original thread because IMHO it was insignificant. However, I decided to read it and see what the fuss is all about. Boy, it was an interesting lecture. :rolleyes: It shows once again that from sublime to ridiculous is just one tiny step.
I mean someone sais "We made a mistake and we are doing the best to correct it" and the other keeps crying "yes, but you mofos, you made a mistake!".
Well, forgive us for being humans. I know I screw up big time... :o But I do congratulate and I envy you for not making mistakes yourself.

I came to this thread because of the title. Sal seldom addressed to a single person in a separate thread, so I read on. I did not read the original thread previously, but because of the various brothers' comments I looked up the original thread to see what was it about. After reading the first two pages I think I get Nozh's arguments (or more properly the lack thereof) all figured out. My conclusion is...

This guy does not deserve a separate thread to his own. Period.

Mr. Glesser has outted himself. His real first name is not Sal.

It is Job.

:D :) :spyder: