Wanted to like the Native 5 but...

[salimoneus]

some things held me back from pulling the trigger.

1) Spydie hole is relatively small and partially hidden. It's challenging opening the knife, I think the blade could have been slightly wider, or the handle carved out a bit more, or something else done, to make the hole more accessible. I mean the Spydie hole is a great and wonderful thing that we all know and love, it's like the cornerstone of all Spyderco knives, why hide a good part of it and make it less usable?

2) The front choil is absolutely huge, seems to take away a large chunk of possible usable edge. And it does seem huge.

3) This knife is built like a tank, which is always appreciated, but to me it seems quite overbuilt considering the relatively small working edge on this knife. The Delica 4 has about as much usable edge and it's way lighter and is still a very strong knife. This knife is as thick and beefy as the Manix with a significantly smaller blade. It just seems out of proportion to me.

Despite these issues, I do like the Native 5. It feels amazingly solid in the hand, and the new locking mechanism gives a strong felt snap into place, one of the more reassuring locking actions I've ever felt on a knife. The G10 feels nice, and I was looking forward to trying out the S35 steel. Unfortunately because of the issues mentioned it won't be going into my pocket, but it's always fun fondling the new offerings from Spyderco. Maybe the Native 6 will be right up my alley. As they say, different strokes...


:spyder:

[Evil D]

I still stick to my guns, the problem is the placement of the hole. If the blade was made any taller, it would have to have a thumb ramp, which is not part of the Native personality. The real issue though, is that the hole is not close enough to the pivot...it's too far forward, which puts the hole closer to the center of the handle, which makes thumbing it awkward because the "circle of motion" that your thumb takes is made larger than it could be.

[salimoneus]

I still stick to my guns, the problem is the placement of the hole. If the blade was made any taller, it would have to have a thumb ramp, which is not part of the Native personality. The real issue though, is that the hole is not close enough to the pivot...it's too far forward, which puts the hole closer to the center of the handle, which makes thumbing it awkward because the "circle of motion" that your thumb takes is made larger than it could be.

Maybe I just have fat thumbs, but I had difficulty getting enough of my thumb in the hole to begin with due to it being partially hidden. And as you mention, I could definitely see how hole placement was a factor in preventing me from flicking the blade fully open in the few cases I was able to access the hole enough to pop out the blade.

[DeathBySnooSnoo]

I can't say that I have ever had an issue with the placement of the hole, or the size of it with the Native...and maybe it is cause I am a lefty and used to partially covered holes, I have never had an issue with that either and I do have pretty wide thumbs, they are an inch wide, but I never don't find and open the blade on the first try.

salimoneus, I am with you 100% on your point #2 been talking about that a lot because of how much I wanted to love the new Native.

[The Deacon]

Nothing works for everyone. I too wish they'd figured out a way to allow full access to the Spyderhole without sacrificing the Native's trademark "no hump" look. On the other hand, I think the choil is perfect, certainly not oversize, and I have fairly small hands and relatively thin fingers.

You could have someone modify your Native V the way some folks, myself included, have modded the original C41 to allow full access to the Spyderhole, but that would only solve one of your issues with it. You could also wait and see if the Sage IV suits you better when it arrives.

[bh49]

I can agree with you only on different strokes.
Native5 is almost perfect for me. There no problem with Spyderhole, size wise or location. I love the choil. I love the build. Most of the time I wear jeans, so weight of the knife is not an issue for me. As of today it is certainly my favorite Golden made model and on the my top five Spydercos ever build.
But again, different strokes, there are few very popular knives, which are not my cup of tea. Fortunately Spyderco makes tea for everyone. :)

[buddy54ck]

I can agree with you only on different strokes.
Native5 is almost perfect for me. There no problem with Spyderhole, size wise or location. I love the choil. I love the build. Most of the time I wear jeans, so weight of the knife is not an issue for me. As of today it is certainly my favorite Golden made model and on the my top five Spydercos ever build.
But again, different strokes, there are few very popular knives, which are not my cup of tea. Fortunately Spyderco makes tea for everyone. :)

:spyder: :spyder:
Well Said Bud!!!

This is definately one of the only ones that Roman and I agree on!!!LOL
Lets have some Tea soon!!!
Charlie
:D
:spyder: :spyder:

[Timothy]

Ive never had the slightest problem with the thumbhole, in fact im faster with the native than the endura. Isnt the choil big to allow a secondary grip if wanted?

[Jay_Ev]

Agreed.

[Wolverine666]

I have had a roller coaster-type relationship with the Native 5. At first I was super excited about getting it as it seemed to be the absolute perfect EDC for me. Then when I got it and used it I liked it but I didn't love it like I thought I would and my focus turned to another knife (the Sage 3). Now after a couple weeks I have given the Native 5 more time in my pocket and in my hand and I can say with confidence that the Native 5 (which did not "wow" me initially) has definitely earned my respect and the title of "Bad-*** Knife". For me , it's an ideal size for EDC and it is certainly "overbuilt" as someone has mentioned earlier (the more overbuilt and beefy the better). The lock has one of the most solid lock-ups I have ever experienced. The S35VN blade = tough as nails. And it's definitely a handsome devil.

I love the Native 5 and it is currently one of my favorites to carry.

[Waco]

some things held me back from pulling the trigger.

1) Spydie hole is relatively small and partially hidden. It's challenging opening the knife, I think the blade could have been slightly wider, or the handle carved out a bit more, or something else done, to make the hole more accessible. I mean the Spydie hole is a great and wonderful thing that we all know and love, it's like the cornerstone of all Spyderco knives, why hide a good part of it and make it less usable?

It works fine for my size XL hand.

2) The front choil is absolutely huge, seems to take away a large chunk of possible usable edge. And it does seem huge.

I like it and it keeps the sharp edge away from my index finger when I unlock the blade and allow it to drop.

3) This knife is built like a tank, which is always appreciated, but to me it seems quite overbuilt considering the relatively small working edge on this knife. The Delica 4 has about as much usable edge and it's way lighter and is still a very strong knife. This knife is as thick and beefy as the Manix with a significantly smaller blade. It just seems out of proportion to me.

I like things that are built like tanks.

[dsmegst]

One of the complaints about the older Native was how tight and uncomfortable the choil was for people with larger hands. They worked well for my hands and I never had issues with them, but I think Spyderco tried to address it with the Native 5. I'll be getting one, the Native series is a classic.

[salimoneus]

It works fine for my size XL hand.

I guess not all thumbs are created equal.

I like it and it keeps the sharp edge away from my index finger when I unlock the blade and allow it to drop.

I think designing a blade primarily so that someone can safely gravity drop it into their finger is a poor way to design a blade. I'm more concerned about how the choil performs when I'm actually using the knife (the reason I have it to begin with) and how much usable edge I'm losing rather than focusing on just the closing operation.

I like things that are built like tanks.

I like things that are built like tanks as well, as I mentioned, but it doesn't seem like this knife offers enough usable blade to need that much overbuilding. It's basically the same size blade as a Delica and I find even the Delica's thin skeletonized inlay liners adequate for that size blade, a very solid knife in it's own right and weight about half that of the Native 5.

[The Mentaculous]

I guess not all thumbs are created equal.



I think designing a blade primarily so that someone can safely gravity drop it into their finger is a poor way to design a blade. I'm more concerned about how the choil performs when I'm actually using the knife (the reason I have it to begin with) and how much usable edge I'm losing rather than focusing on just the closing operation.



I like things that are built like tanks as well, as I mentioned, but it doesn't seem like this knife offers enough usable blade to need that much overbuilding. It's basically the same size blade as a Delica and I find even the Delica's thin skeletonized inlay liners adequate for that size blade, a very solid knife in it's own right and weight about half that of the Native 5.

The Delica is a lightweight, FRN model. The G-10 Delica is probably about the same weight as the Native G-10, and similarly has un-nested liners and a full stainless backspacer (which I love!). Taking the stainless backspacer and replacing it with an FRN one takes away a lot of weight. It's just a different design style, and I have to say I strongly prefer the stainless backspacer and the unbroken lines it provides, and I don't mind the weight.

I believe there will be a lightweight FRN Native 5 coming out, similar to the Delica. I don't know when, though I would be very excited to see it in the next year! (I know the mold-designing process is time consuming and expensive) Perhaps that model will be more suited to your preferences.

[Waco]

I think designing a blade primarily so that someone can safely gravity drop it into their finger is a poor way to design a blade. I'm more concerned about how the choil performs when I'm actually using the knife (the reason I have it to begin with) and how much usable edge I'm losing rather than focusing on just the closing operation.

I happen to be a big fan of one-handed opening and closing. This knife does that better than any other knife I've tried. When using the knife, the choil fits my hand perfectly, but I have a big hand. Increasing the cutting edge length would sacrifice ergonomics, IMO. I've carried an Endura a lot. Long blades are useful once in a while, but I think this blade is good for 95% of my cutting needs.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Just curious, but what can't you do with the knife that you would be able to do if the cutting edge was an inch longer?

I use the part of the blade closest to the handle sometimes but for the most part it doesn't get used nearly as much as the middle and tip. On all my knives the sharpest part of the blade is the area close to the handle and it's because it doesn't get used much. The blade has the same reach as it would with no choil and I just can't imagine that many tasks it won't perform with the choil?

Just curious.

[Waco]

Just curious, but what can't you do with the knife that you would be able to do if the cutting edge was an inch longer?

I use the part of the blade closest to the handle sometimes but for the most part it doesn't get used nearly as much as the middle and tip. On all my knives the sharpest part of the blade is the area close to the handle and it's because it doesn't get used much. The blade has the same reach as it would with no choil and I just can't imagine that many tasks it won't perform with the choil?

Just curious.

Slicing a large onion in half comes to mind. I could use a kitchen knife, of course, but why pass up an opportunity to use my :spyder: ? :D My reason for buying the Native was that I came to the realization that my Endura is more knife than I need at the office and that it's sometimes uncomfortable to have in my pocket when I'm parked behind a desk all day. If it's a weekend or if I'm doing something where I'm more likely to need a big knife, I'll carry the Endura.

[salimoneus]

Just curious, but what can't you do with the knife that you would be able to do if the cutting edge was an inch longer?

I use the part of the blade closest to the handle sometimes but for the most part it doesn't get used nearly as much as the middle and tip. On all my knives the sharpest part of the blade is the area close to the handle and it's because it doesn't get used much. The blade has the same reach as it would with no choil and I just can't imagine that many tasks it won't perform with the choil?

Just curious.

Food prep comes to mind as one of the first things. Or pretty much any larger diameter objects like rope, etc, where having more edge simply gives you more cutting per stroke. Take it to the extreme and consider cutting through a rope with a Ladybug as compared to using a Military.

A larger exposed edge also gives more time in between sharpenings, because it's possible to spread the work load over a larger portion of blade thus reducing overall wear. And if particular parts of the blade lose their fine edge, there is plenty of blade that is still sharp to work with.

[The Deacon]

Food prep comes to mind as one of the first things. Or pretty much any larger diameter objects like rope, etc, where having more edge simply gives you more cutting per stroke. Take it to the extreme and consider cutting through a rope with a Ladybug as compared to using a Military.

A larger exposed edge also gives more time in between sharpenings, because it's possible to spread the work load over a larger portion of blade thus reducing overall wear. And if particular parts of the blade lose their fine edge, there is plenty of blade that is still sharp to work with.

No single knife can make everyone happy, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion and your disappointment. On the other hand, we're not talking the difference between a Ladybug and a Military here, or even the difference between a Native V and a Stretch, we're talking about 5mm or 3/16". That's not really a heck of a lot, especially when the other choices would be a cramped choil or a blade legal in fewer places. I suspect either of those would be deal breakers for more people than 5mm less cutting edge.

[salimoneus]

No single knife can make everyone happy, and you're certainly entitled to your opinion and your disappointment. On the other hand, we're not talking the difference between a Ladybug and a Military here, or even the difference between a Native V and a Stretch, we're talking about 5mm or 3/16". That's not really a heck of a lot, especially when the other choices would be a cramped choil or a blade legal in fewer places. I suspect either of those would be deal breakers for more people than 5mm less cutting edge.

I think the choil could be very usable even with a size reduction, smaller but not necessarily cramped. The relatively few times I need to do fine detailed work requiring use of the choil makes it low on my priority list.

Regardless, if a few mm usable edge was the only thing I wasn't crazy about, I would be carrying one right now. When you add that to several other small issues, they add up.

Like you said though, not every knife can make everyone happy, and I don't expect them to. I was just expressing what I perceive as some shortcomings in this particular model. Many disagree. That's fine, I can deal with having a minority opinion, it's not going to change my thoughts.

Appreciate all the constructive feedback.