whats the native5 too small for?

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casey1
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whats the native5 too small for?

Postby casey1 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:23 am

i've heard a few people not like the blade length. what do you think it's too small to do?

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jackknifeh
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Postby jackknifeh » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:37 am

casey1 wrote:i've heard a few people not like the blade length. what do you think it's too small to do?
I may be wrong but the comments I've seen about length are referencing the edge length, not the blade length. The 50/50 finger choil takes edge length away from any folder. I may be wrong but I think that is what the issue was. The edge length has gotten shorter from past Native models.

Jack
PS edit:
I just checked the on-line catalog and the cutting edge of the Native 5 is 3/16" shorter than the model I have.

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Postby Fred Sanford » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:48 am

casey,

Jackknifeh is correct. I don't like the fact that they have made the knife so much better but took away the cutting edge. The knife was all handle in the first place and now it's even worse. I love the way it looks but I don't like having a 5" handle and a 2.5" cutting edge.
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Postby The Deacon » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:50 am

Nothing pleases everyone and every knife has its limitations. The Native V wouldn't be my first choice for cutting up a watermelon. ;) On the other hand, it's got more blade and more edge than the Chaparral and I've never felt particularly "under-knifed" when carrying one of those. Realistically, the Native V will do anything any other 3" folder will do and, IMHO, the extra 1/8" of blade on the original C41 doesn't really increase its usefulness to any appreciable degree.
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gbelleh
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Postby gbelleh » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:30 am

I agree. As an EDC knife, it will be as effective as any other knife in the 3" range. The refinements and solid build quality more than make up for a small reduction in cutting edge, IMO.
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bh49
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Postby bh49 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:17 am

casey1 wrote:i've heard a few people not like the blade length. what do you think it's too small to do?
Of cause bigger blade is more capable and there are some tasks where Military or para will make easier to do the job. But there are quite a few places, here in US, where you cannot legally carry anything with a blade longer than 3". I think that N5 will be capable to do at least 90% of the tasks, which an average person dealing with. It is the same size like Caly3. Also Native5 is only few millimeters shorter than original Native, which made it perfectly legal in most jurisdictions in US, which is a great thing, the big improvement.
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Evil D
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Postby Evil D » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:18 am

As far as 50/50 choils go....after seeing the Junior's and the upcoming Yojimbo 2's handle designs, i'm starting to wonder if there isn't a better way to design a knife so that there's a secure/safe choil as close to the edge as possible....and possibly just as close as you would be with a 50/50, but without giving up edge length.

Lately i've been EDC'ing my Cento 4, and i've gained a lot of respect for the ergos of that knife...i think it's one of those amazing designs that has slipped through the cracks and fallen out of the spotlight in favor of other hot knives. Granted, the handle has very little at the pivot to stop your finger from going into the edge, BUT i've looked at the design enough and i don't think it would take much to put a really deep groove right there at the end just before the pivot. Something Delica-ish, only deeper and closer to the blade.
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Postby Bradley » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:19 am

It just changes the P.O.U. from Tactical to EDC ;)
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Postby vivi » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:36 pm

I'd take a Millie over it if I were cutting an apple in half, slicing a cantaloupe, slicing a loaf of bread, using it to help maintain a trail, slice up chicken breasts, etc.

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:49 pm

It's had a sufficient blade for decades of sales. :)

Not every knife is for everyone. Some are fine with a Ladybug and others won't leave home without a Military. I think a 3" blade is a nice happy medium and being legal in most places is definitely a boon.
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Postby DeathBySnooSnoo » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:50 pm

casey1 wrote:i've heard a few people not like the blade length. what do you think it's too small to do?
It's not so much that it is too small, its more the fact that the cutting edge is shrinking. If I want a knife with a tiny blade I can get a lady bug. I don't want the native (which is one of my all time favs) to turn into a 1 inch blade on a 6 inch handle...(exaggeration obviously).
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Postby DedRok » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:58 pm

I know its not the biggest knife, but it feels like a tank.

It is hefty in the hand and it inspires confidence.
Spyderco please make a wire clip version of the Manbug/Ladybug!

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:06 pm

DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:It's not so much that it is too small, its more the fact that the cutting edge is shrinking. If I want a knife with a tiny blade I can get a lady bug. I don't want the native (which is one of my all time favs) to turn into a 1 inch blade on a 6 inch handle...(exaggeration obviously).
Yea but losing 7mm of cutting edge or 1/8th an inch overall is a wise move. There are a TON of places that have "not more than 3 inches" as legal restrictions.

You could say the same thing with any knife utilizing a choil because frankly it's a horrible waste of edge you're still penalized for having.
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Postby DeathBySnooSnoo » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:21 pm

Blerv wrote:Yea but losing 7mm of cutting edge or 1/8th an inch overall is a wise move. There are a TON of places that have "not more than 3 inches" as legal restrictions.

You could say the same thing with any knife utilizing a choil because frankly it's a horrible waste of edge you're still penalized for having.
Yes but shrinking the choil by that much would have been just as easy, and better for the knife IMO. Unless you have massive sausage fingers or are using the native with really thick work gloves, then that choil is quite large.

Like I said, the Native is one of my favorite small knives, and I would be totally ok with shrinking the overall blade to 3 inches, just seems like the worst decision to take that from the edge rather than another area that has nothing to do with the actual use of the knife.
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SolidState
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Postby SolidState » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:27 pm

It is really difficult to make judgments on things like this for me. I have to see the internals and how the kicker is set up on the choil before I believe that it can easily be shifted in either direction.

Also, the hole needs to be a set distance from the pivot, limiting exactly what you can do with the choil to blade ratio within ergonomic limits.

I have been battling to get a 3" blade on a design with a serious choil, and it is **** near impossible. It would be impossible if I tried it with a back lock and still wanted my lock bar to engage as well as offer a closing force on the pivot. These design issues may seem to play down to 3/16", and that may seem like peanuts either way but it really can affect the ergos of the final knife. A pivot adjustment of 1/16" can change everything fast.
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Postby Perry » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:37 pm

The N5 is just fine the way it is. If you need a longer blade just buy a bigger knife.
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Postby 2cha » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:42 pm

DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:Yes but shrinking the choil by that much would have been just as easy, and better for the knife IMO. Unless you have massive sausage fingers or are using the native with really thick work gloves, then that choil is quite large.
I don't know, I've never thought of myself as having massive sausage fingers and I don't think I could take a much smaller choil. I really, really appreciate a locking 3" USA made knife to carry as my NYC knife (clipless :mad :) , I'm super happy about this knife, though more attractive scales are in it's future.

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Postby DeathBySnooSnoo » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:44 pm

Perry wrote:The N5 is just fine the way it is. If you need a longer blade just buy a bigger knife.
-P
The point that you are missing is that the Native is shrinking. Not that I don't like the knife...because like I said a couple times, the Native is a favorite. But the edge is disappearing.
And after being really excited about this one, it is no longer a knife that I am going to rush to buy. If I get a really good deal on one later on, then I might get one. But for now, sadly, it has gone much lower on my list.
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Postby Jay_Ev » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:52 pm

Blerv wrote:Yea but losing 7mm of cutting edge or 1/8th an inch overall is a wise move. There are a TON of places that have "not more than 3 inches" as legal restrictions.
There are also a ton of other Spydies which meet that criteria for people to choose from. I, too share people's concerns about the blade getting shorter. I just did a side-by-side with one of my other Native's and not only did the blade get shorter, the handle got longer. I still like the knife, just not crazy about it being shorter.
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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:53 pm

SolidState wrote:Also, the hole needs to be a set distance from the pivot, limiting exactly what you can do with the choil to blade ratio within ergonomic limits.
The Native's hole has always been an issue for me personally. It may be better but is still a tad small and seems slightly blocked. Shrug, I'm just spoiled by easy-accessed 14mm holes like the Stretch and Superhawk. :D
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