Paramilitary 2 vs. Native 5 (vs. Manix 2)

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pud
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Paramilitary 2 vs. Native 5 (vs. Manix 2)

Postby pud » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:32 pm

So what justifies the price difference between Para 2 and Native 5?

Now Manix 2 seems about the same level as the Native 5 (except for steel), both USA made, but those are significantly different in price.
Is Native 5 that much better?
:confused:

jossta
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Postby jossta » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:43 pm

I'm guessing that manufacturing the backlock to the new standards and tolerances, plus using s35vn jumps the price up. Not better, just different. Manix and Para 2 are also part of an experiment with a new pricing structure based on lower profits and higher volume.

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Postby Frapiscide » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:45 pm

Even in bulk, Wire EDMing is expensive. That's one of the reasons why the Native 5 is more expensive and S35VN is a relatively new blade steel.
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justinrose40
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Postby justinrose40 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:47 pm

I am curious to hear the answer to this as well. I have a Manix 2 and a Para 2, I love both of them and can't imagine a knife I would like much better than any one of these. I know there were more changes than just handle material, but that is a huge price jump from the FRN version to the new G10 model. If the new Native is a better knife than the Manix 2 and Para 2, I will have to get one for sure. I'm interested to hear from some of the guys that own the new native and one of these two or all three and see how they think they compare.

jossta
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Postby jossta » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:03 pm

Sal's goal with the Native 5 was the make the backlock as good as it could possibly be with the tightest tolerances. There is definitely more different than just blad and handle material.

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Postby jtoler_9 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:46 pm

It's a good question. I know that when I went to SFO to look at the native 5 they told me that they underwent a ton of R&D on the new design. I wish I could articulate it better. It's difficult to compare based on price alone. As a consumer maybe you might just stay with the para 2. It has S30v and a cool form factor and blade shape. Nothing wrong with that. But as an owner of both a para 2 and a native 5, I can tell you I truly love them both. I think they were both worth the financial investment. It might just be my perception, but I feel the lock on the N5 is a bit sturdier than the para 2.

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Postby Perry » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:28 am

I have all three knives mentioned above. I myself believe that all three are priced reasonably well. Is the N5 better than my Para-2? No. But I will probably end up getting more use out of the N5 than my Para-2, Stretch, ATR, GB, Manix-2-sprint and Mini-Manix. The N5 might actually be my first real EDC. It's discrete, really well designed, it feels super tough and is highly functional. Is 15% a significant cost difference? In the overall scheme of production knife pricing it really isn't. When I consider just how much pocket-time I'm going to give this thing –then it is indeed worth more than my other knives.

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Postby Drkknight614 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 am

The Native 5 is also in a different class then the para 2 and manix 2. It is smaller then both and also lighter. Yes prices are around each other but really comparing apples to oranges here.
Manix 2 DLC, Delica 4 FFG, Ladybug 3,County Comm H1 Ladybug 3 , Endura 4 FFG G10, C94 UKPK Leaf, Atlantic Salt, Military Camo DLC,Sage 1 Para 2 DLC, Delica 4.

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Postby ricechrispy » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:39 am

Been lurking for a while, but I thought I should probably make my first post since I own all three of the knives mentioned. All are PE. The Para 2 and N5 I own are the regular production models and my Manix 2 is a BD30P Sprint. I love all three of the knives and for different reasons. I'll rank them from best to pretty good on a few categories. I'm somewhat new to knives and won't comment on things I don't feel really qualified to comment on (e.g. steel and ease of sharpening). I also won't comment on anything easily discerned from the product specs (e.g. weight or length of blade).

Ease of deployment:
1. Manix 2 - I can pull back the lock and let gravity do the work, I can flick it open with my index finger, or I can slowly open it with my thumb.

2. Para 2 - This one I just use my thumb to open. It's not quite as smooth as my M2 is.

3. Native 5 - Almost as easy to open as the Para 2, but the hole is smaller and partially obscured.


Space taken up in pocket (from least to most):
1. Native 5
2. Para 2
3. Manix 2 - It an the Para 2 are close, but the Manix 2 is a little wider in the pocket.

Discreetness in pocket (clipped tip up):
1. Manix 2 - Barely any of it shows.
2. Native 5
3. Para 2

Ease of closing with one hand:
1. Manix 2 - I usually just pull back the lock and let it gently fall closed. I'll usually let the lock engage before it closes all the way to prevent it from slamming closed.

2. Native 5 - I press the lockbar and let the choil fall onto my index finger. I then close the the rest of the way.

3. Para 2 - Can be closed one handed, but not as easily as a backlock.

Comfort in hand choked up:
1. Native 5 - It's been said before, but I'll repeat it. I'm pretty sure this is how it was made to be gripped.
2. Manix 2
3. Para 2

Comfort in hand not choked up:
1. Para 2
2. Manix 2
3. Native 5 - Handle is too short to comfortably grip this way.

Let me know if there are other characteristics any of you would like me to rank these knives on (based on my personal opinion, of course). All in all, these are three awesome knives and I use each of them on a regular basis.

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Waco
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Postby Waco » Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:55 am

I'm anxiously awaiting my Native 5. I tried a Para 2. It was supposed to be my medium-size knife. It's a great knife, but the compression lock just didn't match the smooth opening of my Endura 4 and unlocking it wasn't as comfortable or consistent. The fact that I'm left-handed is probably part of the issue. I think the Native will serve me well for situations where the Endura is a bit large.

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Postby syphen » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:07 am

The Manix 2 and Para 2 are both larger knives. I prefer the Native 5's size for Edc. But i prefer the cbb and compression locks though.
Too many Spydies to list!

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Postby pud » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:34 pm

Thanks-

What is wire EDMing?

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ValueKnifeLover
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Postby ValueKnifeLover » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:00 am

pud wrote:Thanks-

What is wire EDMing?
it's a very unique and specific form of cutting metals precisely. That's about all I know... Apparently :spyder: uses it a bit.

http://www.edmmachining.com/wire_edm.htm
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Chris_H
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Postby Chris_H » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:25 pm

ricechrispy wrote:Been lurking for a while, but I thought I should probably make my first post since I own all three of the knives mentioned. All are PE.
Welcome to the :spyder: forums! Those three models make a very nice collection. :cool:
"All your :spyder: are belong to us."
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Waco
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Postby Waco » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:32 pm

My Native 5 arrived today. :D Very solid little knife. It opens effortlessly. Closing is easy too because the blade falls when I push the back lock firmly. It's comfortable in my XL hand, despite being a small knife.

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DedRok
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Postby DedRok » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:32 pm

pud wrote:Thanks-

What is wire EDMing?
Watch this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBueWfzb ... re=related
Spyderco please make a wire clip version of the Manbug/Ladybug!

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Waco
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First day carrying my Native 5.

Postby Waco » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:14 am

I haven't had a reason to cut anything yet, but I have noticed that I can't even feel it clipped in my front pocket while I'm sitting at my desk. My Para 2 and my Endura both can be uncomfortable and feel like they are jabbing me in the hip, depending on the fit of the jeans that I'm wearing.

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bh49
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Postby bh49 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:48 am

pud wrote:So what justifies the price difference between Para 2 and Native 5?

Now Manix 2 seems about the same level as the Native 5 (except for steel), both USA made, but those are significantly different in price.
Is Native 5 that much better?

:confused:
Sal mentioned few times that Spyderco produces Para2 and Manix2 at lower than average profit margin. Production Manix2 has not only less expensive steel (less expensive to buy as material and less expensive to work with), but also less expensive grind. Still if you compare Native5 and Manix2 with FFG and compatible steel, price will be pretty close.
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My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian

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Postby ricechrispy » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:14 pm

Chris_H wrote:Welcome to the :spyder: forums! Those three models make a very nice collection. :cool:
Thanks for the welcome, Chris.

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:05 pm

steela, ffg vs hg, margin percentages
:spyder: Blake :spyder:


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