pretty disappointed in my Carpenter para 2 sprint :(

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
vic
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Postby vic » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:59 am

GoMeR wrote: I am probably just being picky, I realize this is a tool and while its not a super expensive knife like a full custom

I did not mean to come off as whiny

you're not being picky or whiny, you have 2 good examples of the para 2 and you know a bad one when you see it, and it is an expensive knife: almost twice as much as your other para 2's

it's a faulty knife

i'd see what spyderco can do for you, i definitely wouldn't keep it if you don't have to, you won't enjoy it

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Postby jackknifeh » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:11 am

This isn't even my knife and I'm upset for you. Howe's should do more for you IMO. Plug for Cutlery Shoppe. Jeff will check out a knife before sending it if you request it. I never have but I've heard others say he does that. But even if he doesn't I think he accepts returns like your example here. The policy is 30 days as long as the knife is just like he sent it to you. Don't sharpen it or use it. Box in good shape, etc. I think his policy is as much for the times we don't like the feel of a knife because we can't handle them before buying as it is for warranty issues which is what you have IMO.

Jack

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Postby GoMeR » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:11 am

jossta wrote:If you place your orders with SpydercoVT, I'm pretty sure he hand inspects every knife before it goes out. Also, if you call and ask them, a lot of places will check them out for you first.
I have bought a few knives from Tom, hes great to deal with, however, the other sprint I mentioned with problems, my Lum tanto came from Tom and its got some red spots in the grey g10 and a poor sharpening.

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Postby jackknifeh » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:18 am

GoMeR wrote:I have bought a few knives from Tom, hes great to deal with, however, the other sprint I mentioned with problems, my Lum tanto came from Tom and its got some red spots in the grey g10 and a poor sharpening.
Did you ask him for a refund or replacement knife? The problems you're describing come from a manufacturer, not the vendor but vendors usually back what they sell then deal with the manufacturer for their satisfaction. That's how I understand it anyway.

Jack

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Postby GoMeR » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:18 am

jackknifeh wrote:This isn't even my knife and I'm upset for you. Howe's should do more for you IMO. Plug for Cutlery Shoppe. Jeff will check out a knife before sending it if you request it. I never have but I've heard others say he does that. But even if he doesn't I think he accepts returns like your example here. The policy is 30 days as long as the knife is just like he sent it to you. Don't sharpen it or use it. Box in good shape, etc. I think his policy is as much for the times we don't like the feel of a knife because we can't handle them before buying as it is for warranty issues which is what you have IMO.

Jack
A pretty high percentage of the knives I own have come from Jeff, hes excellent to deal with, I keep his number in my cell phone, I have spoken to him many times. Cutlery shoppe and Knifeworks are the 2 dealers I use most of the time, I just missed this particular sprint when it was first released. I was unaware how nice the Para 2 was until a little over a month ago when I got my first one, I did not pre-order this sprint like I normally would.

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Postby GoMeR » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:29 am

jackknifeh wrote:Did you ask him for a refund or replacement knife? The problems you're describing come from a manufacturer, not the vendor but vendors usually back what they sell then deal with the manufacturer for their satisfaction. That's how I understand it anyway.

Jack
I did not ask Tom for a refund, my emails or pm's got kicked back the two times I went to contact him, something like his inbox was full IIRC, plus I agree with you, the problem is a manufacturing one. It may even be beyond Spyderco's control, the problem on the Lum appears to be in the manufacturing of the g-10. In no way am I trying to put the blame on anyone, it's my fault I did not send it in yet or continue to try and contact the dealer but I have been busy. I had planned to send it in, I just have not done so yet, I may include it with the para 2 for a trip back. Off to work, thanks for all the responses!

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:31 am

I don't think it should be on the shoulder of the dealer to personally inspect every knife that leaves their shop. QC is the responsibility of the maker as they define the standards of what passes/fails. Ultimately a customer seeking a pristine sample should hand-inspect every knife they buy. It's the only way to guarantee expectations will be fulfilled.

For every person who is bothered by an uneven secondary bevel grind or spec in a G10 scale there are a number who don't care. These people aren't necessarily slobs or non-particular but often are just less concerned. They are buying an exclusive high performance tool.

A dull knife or a lock that clearly won't keep the blade open is completely another matter.

None of this is meant to trivialize frustrations or defend manufacturing problems. Obviously these limited runs could use a tad more attention to detail. Still, at what cost? Maybe they should make all Sprints into the Benchmade "Gold Class" type designation and double the price?

I buy sprints to get snobby exotic materials or a slice of nostalgic pie. For $100-170 I'm not afraid to actually use them.
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Postby angusW » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:40 am

I would be a bit disappointed as well if my Para2 Sprint came in like that but fortunately mines perfect. I think it's up to the individual to have high or low expectations for something they are purchasing. To get upset and make sarcastic remarks because someone isn't happy with the quality of a product they purchased is somewhat juvenile and none of their business.

Gomer, even though this is a limited run, I believe Spyderco make a few more for just these kind of situations.

Good luck.
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Postby salimoneus » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:47 am

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I would just go back to Spyderco, have them take a look, if they can replace it then great, otherwise I'd take a factory credit maybe towards another upcoming sprint (and take your chances again) or go for a production model. Either way there's no sense in holding onto something you aren't happy with.

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:07 am

I guess that there's a big chance with getting some cosmetic "defects" with any of spyderco's products. The thing with sprints are that there is a limited quantity and that no extras may be available to exchange one that you're not satisfied with.

I usually purchase sprints because I like to try out steels so cosmetic "defects" don't bother me but a defect that affects functionality will certainly bother me. OTOH, if I were bothered with blemishes, I would not purchase any knife that I have not held and examined. Or barring that, I would only purchase regular production items that I know will have replacements that I can get if I get one I'm not satisfied with.

At least that is the theory. As it is, I cannot ship out knives from where I am even as I can receive knives. So that means that I'm stuck with any knife that I get, warranty or blem notwithstanding.

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Postby Perry » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:21 am

The dealer I bought it from(Howes) states there will be no returns on Sprint runs, most likely because of problems like mine and no more stock to replace.
I would never do business with that seller again, ridiculous policy, thanks for the heads-up.

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Postby salimoneus » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:43 am

Perry wrote:I would never do business with that seller again, ridiculous policy, thanks for the heads-up.
Agreed. As soon as I read that policy notice on Howes website I removed them from my list of dealers, before placing any orders.

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Postby JCP1969 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:10 am

I bought my 2nd gray para2 sprint from Howes because he was the only place that had them left. I remember seeing on the web page he had order 125 from spyderco and other vendors. There is a chance the last ones he received were from a vendor who may have gotten a few returns and instead passed them on to Jim Howe. I am not saying he had 125. he placed an order basically to get as many as he could . I think it sucks you have to deal with being unpleasantly surprised and I do think you have a gripe. I however think you need to either accept it or send it to spyderco to recoup your losses. I think a call to Howes is important as well. I will still buy from Howes knowing full well my purchase is guaranteed by Spyderco and instead of shipping it NW I will ship it SW.

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Postby bh49 » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:50 am

my grey para also had a dent on the scale, which looked like melted plastic. I send it to Spyderco and the knife was replaced with new, which is near perfect.
WalzAaronFFG wrote: I also had some disappointment in the sharpening job on one of my sprints, but it was the Lum Tanto,
My Lum is great, but my friend's Lum had a huge burr on the edge. I was shocked to see something like this. Fortunately he has sharpmaker.
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The Mastiff
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Postby The Mastiff » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:25 pm

GoMeR, I honestly think you are setting your expectations too high. Other than what looks like scratches in picture two by the top of the blade it looks to me like everything would be within spec.

Note* I couldn't if I wanted to, and wouldn't if I could speak for spyderco.

When you begin having problems with knives that have been hand inspected by Tom Berry and passed that should be an indication that you might be asking for too much.

None of the problems are anything that could affect performance. The colors or stains on the blades could be cleaned off with no special materials or techniques. The average house has things you could use including stuff like toothpaste.

Solvent based light oil products and a cloth should take care of it, but if not go to the toothpaste.

The differences in the grinds are not a problem in any way and you can only tell a difference when closely comparing different knives. Nothing about this can affect performance of the knife.

To get the kind of precision and continuity you require would take different manufacturing methods including robotics, laser or other measurement devices like high speed cameras attached to computers, etc.

To get rid of indentations that we can't even see in something like G10 would add time, and cost to the processing. Possibly even need a different manufacturing technique to get that G10 perfect.

Would you really pay the cost that it would take to make a perfect knife? It would be more than Sebenza/Uumzaan money and it wouldn't make the knife perform one tiny bit better than the one you have.

I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm just trying to point out what your expectations are and what they would cost. You get what you pay for and with Spyderco's you aren't paying for perfection or close to it even though it may seem like it sometimes.

On the other hand some people need that near perfection to be happy. You might be one of those people. If you are looking for it in production knife manufacturers line of knives it's bound to make you, and undoubtedly others unhappy.

Regards,

Joe
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Postby Tdog » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:54 pm

I have purchased a number of knives from Howes and they are good people. They have posted on their website "NO RETURNS OF SPRINT RUNS" or knives on sale. This is known before the purchase is made. With sprint runs, once a knife is sold out it is likely impossible to replace. We all have probably bought Spyderco's that weren't "perfect". Any item made by humans with manmade materials runs the risk of not being "perfect". As others have said, see if Spyderco may be able to help you out. Sorry you got a knife with issues, hopefully it will work out to your satisfaction. Good luck with it.

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Postby SQSAR » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:10 pm

Judging from the photos, I'd just keep the knife as a user and try to just forget about it. But, I certainly don't blame you for being a bit upset. We all have our personal thresholds as to how close to 'perfect' is close enough for us. Some require absolute perfection, some could care less what the condition is. most of us fall somewhere in between, , , and no one can say who's threshold is more valid than anyone else's. Just like sharpening: Some are happy if their knife can shave the hair off their leg, ,some aren't satisfied until they can shave the hair off a peach.

1st thing I'd do is contact Spyderco customer support to see what they say, since the guy you purchased it from obviously isn't going to do anything to help you. Either way, I'd venture a guess to say the knife is still 100 percent serviceable so no worries there. I'm sorry for the trouble this situation has caused you. I know how much of a pain it is to find these sort of things when you were looking forward to a good knife with a great steel.

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Postby Jay_Ev » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:29 pm

Howe's is really taking a beating in this thread. Up until this specific circumstance, I have heard nothing but good things about this dealer. Now, people are starting to avoid him like the plague. I gotta say, I think it's a little unfair / unwarranted. As previously mentioned, the disclaimer is displayed, clear as a bell, in large, bold font before you even get to see the knives.

I sincerely hope that GoMeR's concerns are resolved & brought to a satisfactory conclusion. I just don't think it's appropriate to try to pin the blame on Howe's.
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Postby Jay_Ev » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:37 pm

The Mastiff wrote:When you begin having problems with knives that have been hand inspected by Tom Berry and passed that should be an indication that you might be asking for too much.
I'm not so sure I can agree with this :o Everyone has different expectations and Tom Berry does not speak for everyone. What he deems passable, another person might find totally unacceptable. It shouldn't be up to one person to decide.
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Postby salimoneus » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:40 pm

Jay_Ev wrote:I'm not so sure I can agree with this :o Everyone has different expectations and Tom Berry does not speak for everyone. What he deems passable, another person might find totally unacceptable. It shouldn't be up to one person to decide.
Someone should tell that to Ben Bernanke.


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