pretty disappointed in my Carpenter para 2 sprint :(

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GoMeR
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pretty disappointed in my Carpenter para 2 sprint :(

Postby GoMeR » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:09 pm

Update......Jim from Howe's has contacted me and my issue is being resolved, again, his customer service is excellent!

Grey para 2 just arrived last night, I am less than happy with it. There are some indentations in the g-10 like it was pressed hard against something, the blade spine is not ground straight, it takes a hard dip at the tip. The blade is scratched in a couple places along the spine and shorter by a little over a 1/16th of an inch in comparison to my other para 2's, likely from the crooked spine grind. The sharpening job is terrible on one side, there are 2 different bevels, this is not a big problem I can sharpen that out.

My main concern is whoever sharpened it got the first 1/8th inch of the blade hot enough to change color and I am a bit concerned about the heat treat. Especially since the tip is the most fragile part. The blade has a bit of a strange color to it as well, almost bluish but that could just be dirt. I have not used the knife at all, just opened and closed it a few times inspecting it and for the picture. Maybe this steel is just that much harder to grind, did I get a knife someone returned?

My last 3 out of 4 Spydercos have had problems, 2 of which are sprint runs and all purchased from reputable dealers! I know this isn't that big of a deal but I paid $170 for this para sprint and my 2 production s30v para 2's are much nicer and cost me under $100 each. Ticks me off a bit because I am paying the extra $75 for the blade itself and it has all the problems.

Here is a picture of the blade, tip, and grind, its cloudy here today so its not the best, the overheat to me looks worse in person than my camera picks up with the clouds. If its sunny tomorrow I may take some more pictures.

The dealer I bought it from states there will be no returns on Sprint runs, most likely because of problems like mine and no more stock to replace.

On the plus side this para 2 opens very smoothly, lockup is solid with no blade play in any direction, and the blade is dead centered in the handles!

I love this model and bought the knife to carry, but its disappointing when quality is sub par, it also makes it really hard to resell a knife in the event I am not happy with a particular model. One of the reasons Benchmade no longer gets my business, I just got to many in a row with problems.

Sorry, rant over, hope everyone else got pristine examples! :D .

Image

Slash
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Postby Slash » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:17 pm

I know how you feel. Whenever I get something like that I'm not happy with. I try my best to fix it. Then put if up for sale. Maybe someone else wont mind the flaws so much as you.

jossta
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Postby jossta » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:21 pm

Send it back to spyderco?

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suedeface
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Postby suedeface » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:22 pm

Looks like about 1/32 of an inch to me on the tip. If you're going to carry and use it, the discolored area will be gone in about 1-2 sharpenings. I would be more concerned with the lock-up, and it seems like it's good in that respect. If you are really dissapointed, I'm sure you could sell it as is, likely for a profit.

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BJEOD
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Postby BJEOD » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:25 pm

am I blind? Sorry, I don't want to come off the wrong way, but I don't see what your talking about. Must be a bad pic. Then again, I do not yet have a para to compare.. If your not happy though, you should call spyderco.
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Agent_Ohm
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Postby Agent_Ohm » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:36 pm

mine too came with indentations in the G10, havnt had the time to mail it to sfo yet.
In omnia paratus

WalzAaronFFG
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Postby WalzAaronFFG » Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:51 pm

Could you post pics of the indentations you mentioned?

The discoloration on the blade could be quickly removed with some Super Premium Polishing paste.This video is specific to the ZDP-189 steel, but the effect is the same on all metals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEegaKCgT38

It takes guts to post a thread about disappointment in a blade here. I also had some disappointment in the sharpening job on one of my sprints, but it was the Lum Tanto, which is hand ground some variation is to be expected (or so i'm told).

Whether or not your issues are worth sending it in IDK, but if it bothers you just take care of it. I'm sure Spyderco can fix it or replace it or something. You never know unless you ask.

Usually when people post F&F or QC concerns on the forum people jump down their throats. Sometimes I understand it, but other times I think that people can be a little defensive of Spyderco and overreact to a fair criticism.

Just based on your explanation and the photo you showed I can't be the judge of weather or not this is within spec, but just call SFO and ask them for assistance. If you are nice, but assertive you can get all of this cleared up.

Other than the weird sharpening job on my Lum Tanto I have only had 1 other issue out of 15+ Spyderco knives. Both issues were minor and easily resolved. Spyderco is a great company. if you give them a chance to fix it i'm sure they will.
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markg
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Postby markg » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:20 pm

First off, I would make it clear to your dealer that you are not happy with their policy on returns and will be shopping elsewhere.

There is always a risk when buying a sprint run knife. If you have an issue you may not find another to replace it.

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psychophipps
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Postby psychophipps » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:04 pm

Also, be sure to give Spyderco a call as well. Sal and company are very interested in any feedback you might offer so they can improve their internal processes to make themselves that much better at serving their customers.

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:05 pm

I would avoid buying sprints or only do so from places you can look them over. These are less production models and more semi-custom in the number produced. 600-1200 simply isn't the size of run that allows as much room for accuracy.

As a functional tool you bought the one of the best performing tools in the world at any cost. As jewelry maybe not.

On a positive note you might sell it and make money. That's a highly desired tool despite the aesthetical blemishes.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Gunslinger
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Postby Gunslinger » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:19 pm

My Grey Para2 came with some defects too. The G10 scales had some depressions on it and the compression lock wasnt shaped right. I sent it back to Spyderco and they replaced it with a flawless one. I suggest you do the same, Spyderco will make it right.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

FlaMtnBkr
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Postby FlaMtnBkr » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:23 pm

I don't see the issues but unfortunately you either have to deal with it or go without. If the store won't take it back then you can send it to Spyderco. The only problem is they don't stock parts and because its a limited run they won't have a replacement. They will offer you a credit for the MSRP of the knife which you can use towards other knives at the SFO that all run at MSRP. When you have a problem with a Sprint its not good and you better hope you bought from a good store. If Howes won't let you make returns then I would find somewhere else to shop after I let them know what I think of their policy. If they won't take returns then they need to inspect each knife for any flaws. Good luck figuring things out.

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jabba359
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Postby jabba359 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:26 pm

GoMeR wrote:There are some indentations in the g-10...the blade spine is not ground straight...The blade is scratched in a couple places along the spine and shorter by a little over a 1/16th of an inch...The sharpening job is terrible on one side, there are 2 different bevels...whoever sharpened it got the first 1/8th inch of the blade hot enough to change color and I am a bit concerned about the heat treat...The blade has a bit of a strange color to it as well, almost bluish but that could just be dirt.
Your knife sounds like a mess. :eek: Not only did the guy grinding it screw everything possible up, but the person sharpening it got their job wrong too while the person putting the G-10 on also had issues. And to top it all off they got the blade dirty (blue dirt?). I don't really recall seeing a NIB knife with so many problems before. Seeing as how the dealer doesn't accept returns, I don't imagine it is one that somebody else returned.

On the other hand, the extra grinding away of material isn't unheard of, as the issue was brought up before by other owners of this particular sprint. They weren't missing material on the tip, but on the belly of the knife, but makes me wonder if the steel is just a lot harder to grind as uniformly.
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Gunslinger
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Postby Gunslinger » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:27 pm

Like I said, Spyderco replaced my grey Para2
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:29 pm

Yea I would talk to Spyderco via phone. Let then sort it out. We certainly don't work there. ;) . Thx for sharing your frustrations though! Sorry to hear about them.
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

FlaMtnBkr
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Postby FlaMtnBkr » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:54 pm

Gunslinger wrote:Like I said, Spyderco replaced my grey Para2
How long ago? It's a Sprint run and once they get shipped to dealers then Spyderco no longer has any. The knife shipped a while ago so I can't imagine they have any left they haven't shipped. Maybe he can get lucky if he hurries. I've had problems with 2 different sprints and they didn't have a new one to give me and I sent them in quicker in relation to when they first started shipping.

Glad you got yours fixed but they can't give out new ones if they don't have them.

GoMeR
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Postby GoMeR » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:22 pm

Thanks for the ideas guys! This was the first time I have dealt with this dealer and honestly customer service was excellent, communication was good, shipping was fast, and tracking info was provided promptly. I researched Howe's feedback before I placed the order and did not find any negative.

I am probably just being picky, I realize this is a tool and while its not a super expensive knife like a full custom, its a relatively high priced knife as far as production knives go. Would someone off the street who is not a knife person pay $170, not likely, but they would also not see the benefits that you or I might.

I did not mean to come off as whiny I just like to get what I pay for and I think a lot of people are to accepting of blemishes now days and It's a problem to me. Maybe my expectations are to high, I love Spyderco, I think its a great company, Sal as far as owners go is top notch, and I have owned many many of their knives. That being said I have a few Kershaws that are well under the $100 mark, some around $50 that are nearly flawless, my other 2 para's are pretty much perfect as well, both costing just a shade under $100. I have many Spydercos that are nearly perfect and that's one reason I continue to purchase them, they are almost always shaving sharp out of the box as well. Granted I can sharpen a knife to a mirror polish on the edge pro in about 15-20 minutes but should I have to straight out of the box from a reputable company?

Yes it's likely the heat discolor would sharpen out in a few sharpening's, maybe even with some polishing although that has not been my experience with things I have ground. Should I have to remove material on my brand new knife to get it acceptable, I guess that's debatable but I would prefer not to have to? If the tip got hot did the rest of the knife? It would have to be tested, but that's one reason I buy quality knives, I trust the manufacturers to take care of that testing. This is my very first experience with that type of problem.

I probably just got a couple bad apples the last couple times, I realize it happens, it just kind of seems to happen to me on higher cost sprint run knives for some reason.

I would prefer not to sell the knife as I was hoping to try this steel, and this knife is fairly hard to get a hold of now. I bought it to carry for edge retention benefits over s30v, not to sell. It may annoy me enough that I may decide to sell it, that was not my plan when I started looking for this particular model though. I try to be extremely honest when I sell a knife on one of the other forums, should I have to say this knife is scratched, dented and poorly ground, but it's still nib. That's not a description I look for when buying a knife on the secondary market.

Granted If I would have received say a bad grind alone, or dents alone, it's likely I would have just kept my mouth shut, but there are several problems that made me look twice and pick things out.

Anyway here are a couple more pictures I snapped, they are good enough to get the idea of what I am talking about. The heat colored tip is incredibly hard to capture, but here's one of the drop off on the front of the blade and the scratches, scratches are on both sides of the blade. My other 2 para's touch the entire length if placed spine to spine or against a straight edge, this one drops off and there are 2 scratches near the spine. The lower marks are just smudges down near the bottom of the blade. I have been carrying an s30v para 2 daily for over a month now and I could see the drop in the tip of the Carpenter as soon as I opened the knife the first time, maybe its not as big of a deal to others as it is to me.

Image

Straight grind on my black para 2 touches the entire length so does my other para 2 with the satin blade.

Image

Pic of the dents, they don't look big but can certainly be felt when I run my finger across them. There are 3 on the front side, the one in the middle of the pic being the largest, followed by the one on the top right of the picture and 3 on the back side of the knife that are smaller.

Image

GoMeR
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Postby GoMeR » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:26 pm

jabba359 wrote:Your knife sounds like a mess. :eek: Not only did the guy grinding it screw everything possible up, but the person sharpening it got their job wrong too while the person putting the G-10 on also had issues. And to top it all off they got the blade dirty (blue dirt?). I don't really recall seeing a NIB knife with so many problems before. Seeing as how the dealer doesn't accept returns, I don't imagine it is one that somebody else returned.

On the other hand, the extra grinding away of material isn't unheard of, as the issue was brought up before by other owners of this particular sprint. They weren't missing material on the tip, but on the belly of the knife, but makes me wonder if the steel is just a lot harder to grind as uniformly.
I meant returned to Spyderco but I wasn't clear. Seeing as how this dealer had some more stock last week and the knife has been sold out at most reasonably priced dealers for a while now. Thanks for the link and the sarcasm though.

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jackknifeh
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Postby jackknifeh » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:20 am

I've always heard good things about Howe's but never did business with them. Not taking a return in a situation like this is definately strike one against. Maybe though it has something to do with Spyderco's position on returns. Normally re-sellers of products honor any warranty that the manufacturer has.

I hope you get with Spyderco about this. I think I'd feel the same way you do about this knife. I use my knives so minor cosmetic flaws even in a brand new knife don't bother me. I usually do worse to them. But this one appears to be across the "live with it" line.

Good luck,
Jack

jossta
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Postby jossta » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:45 am

If you place your orders with SpydercoVT, I'm pretty sure he hand inspects every knife before it goes out. Also, if you call and ask them, a lot of places will check them out for you first.


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