Which currently produced folder have thinnest edge ?
Which currently produced folder have thinnest edge ?
Hi there!
New to this forum, not new to Spyderco In my research on blades geometry how it affect cutting I found very crucial the thinnest edge possible, maintaining enough impact resistance. Recently when comapring ease of paper slicing I saw how really easy true scandi grind can slice it against latest Military in XHP (even after whetstones and mirror-polishing). The conclusion made: thickness right after the edge: hairline on scandi and relatively thick on Milie.
So, what do you think is that "research" true and which :spyder: folder (or mule), currently produced have the thinnest edge with FFG grind ?
New to this forum, not new to Spyderco In my research on blades geometry how it affect cutting I found very crucial the thinnest edge possible, maintaining enough impact resistance. Recently when comapring ease of paper slicing I saw how really easy true scandi grind can slice it against latest Military in XHP (even after whetstones and mirror-polishing). The conclusion made: thickness right after the edge: hairline on scandi and relatively thick on Milie.
So, what do you think is that "research" true and which :spyder: folder (or mule), currently produced have the thinnest edge with FFG grind ?
- The Deacon
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Among the ones I have, and have measured, the Chaparral is king of the hill. The measurements below are averages of several I took on each blade. I won't claim absolute accuracy for the numbers. Just like scales, measurements taken with different verniers don't always agree. However, I'm confident any error in mine is consistent, so the relative positions of the knives will be correct.
Chaparral .014
ZDP Caly 3 .016
Caly 3.5 .020
CF Kiwi .022
CF ZDP Stretch .026
LH Military .027
Sage I .028
Red C83 Persian .028
Chaparral .014
ZDP Caly 3 .016
Caly 3.5 .020
CF Kiwi .022
CF ZDP Stretch .026
LH Military .027
Sage I .028
Red C83 Persian .028
Paul
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Perhaps some statement of the tolerance range in production knives should be stated. I own several copies of some models and I can tell you that the measurement is far from consistent from one blade to the next (i.e. my Militaries could occupy any spot on Paul's list between 3rd and last, and of the Endura 4s I own range from second place to last place).
I am sure some factories are more consistent than others, but I would not expect everyone to measure their knives and arrive at the same values for each model. Perhaps the order of ranking would hold true for the majority...but I expect there would be exceptions.
I am sure some factories are more consistent than others, but I would not expect everyone to measure their knives and arrive at the same values for each model. Perhaps the order of ranking would hold true for the majority...but I expect there would be exceptions.
Thanks,
Ken (my real name)
...learning something new all the time.
Ken (my real name)
...learning something new all the time.
To tell the truth this should be expected. The thickness behind the edge defined by primary grind, which should be consistent and sharpening, which is manual operation and consistent only to some degree. Also the results of measurement always have measurement error, which can be associated with operator or measurement tool.unit wrote:Perhaps some statement of the tolerance range in production knives should be stated. I own several copies of some models and I can tell you that the measurement is far from consistent from one blade to the next
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My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
My top choices Natives5, Calys, C83 Persian
I agree entirely!bh49 wrote:To tell the truth this should be expected. The thickness behind the edge defined by primary grind, which should be consistent and sharpening, which is manual operation and consistent only to some degree. Also the results of measurement always have measurement error, which can be associated with operator or measurement tool.
Thanks,
Ken (my real name)
...learning something new all the time.
Ken (my real name)
...learning something new all the time.
- Spider bite
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Deacon- Do you have a Dragonfly2? I think it would be in the top 5. I need a caliper!The Deacon wrote:Among the ones I have, and have measured, the Chaparral is king of the hill. The measurements below are averages of several I took on each blade. I won't claim absolute accuracy for the numbers. Just like scales, measurements taken with different verniers don't always agree. However, I'm confident any error in mine is consistent, so the relative positions of the knives will be correct.
Chaparral .014
ZDP Caly 3 .016
Caly 3.5 .020
CF Kiwi .022
CF ZDP Stretch .026
LH Military .027
Sage I .028
Red C83 Persian .028
"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."-George Smith Patton, Jr
- dj moonbat
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bh49 wrote:To tell the truth this should be expected. The thickness behind the edge defined by primary grind, which should be consistent and sharpening, which is manual operation and consistent only to some degree. Also the results of measurement always have measurement error, which can be associated with operator or measurement tool.
That's just letting Spyderco off easy. At these prices, both the primary grind and edge should be created by CNC laser machines.
[/kidding]
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Generally, the knives made by Moki (Calys, Persians, Ayoob et al) will have nice thin edges. You can tell them by the "Japan" stamp on the tang (as opposed to "Seki City Japan" for other Japanese makers).
Tom
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Junior avatar courtesy of dialexSequimite wrote:I use knives. I collect experiences.
I'm an admirer of Spyderco's designs. Using them is like immersing yourself in music or studying a painting in a museum. I buy some "fine" art but my preference is for usable art.
- The Deacon
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Can't help on the D'fly 2 or the Para, as I don't own either.
True, that's why it's better to compare measurements of "knife A" and "knife B" taken by one person than to compare one person's measurement of "knife A" and with someone else's measurement of "knife B". Neither persons may match those taken by in a lab with perfectly calibrated instruments and, while each persons instrument should be off by a consistent amount, those amounts will inevitably be different.bh49 wrote:To tell the truth this should be expected. The thickness behind the edge defined by primary grind, which should be consistent and sharpening, which is manual operation and consistent only to some degree. Also the results of measurement always have measurement error, which can be associated with operator or measurement tool.
Paul
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There will be both systematic and random error in each individual measurement. In introductory level science labs, this is usually described as the difference between accuracy and precision. Calibration only deals with the systematic error introduced by the instrument. There may also be systematic error in the way the measurer uses the instrument (eg, if s/he's using it improperly). On top of that, there will always be some element of random error.The Deacon wrote:... while each persons instrument should be off by a consistent amount ...
Using a ruler, I would agree that the measurer is likely to make the same rounding errors every time. Using calipers, I would expect random error to be more noticeable.
- The Deacon
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True, but carried to the extreme, it would mean all measurements are worthless. Plus, to further complicate the issue, there's no guarantee two knives of the exact same model would yield the same measurement even with the best equipment and a trained operator. If you read my initial post, you'll see I took a number of measurements of each blade and averaged them.shimage wrote:There will be both systematic and random error in each individual measurement. In introductory level science labs, this is usually described as the difference between accuracy and precision. Calibration only deals with the systematic error introduced by the instrument. There may also be systematic error in the way the measurer uses the instrument (eg, if s/he's using it improperly). On top of that, there will always be some element of random error.
Using a ruler, I would agree that the measurer is likely to make the same rounding errors every time. Using calipers, I would expect random error to be more noticeable.
Don't get me wrong. I know one of the major problems with posting information anywhere is that it will be given more credibility than it deserves, so it's always good when someone points out the ways it could be wrong. I'd still say, based on how they cut and on the much more subjective "pinch" test, that the order is accurate or at least very close to it.
Paul
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@The Deacon: You make good points. I also think that in this sort of thing, feel is as good as actual measurements, provided the user is trustworthy. I think my tone was a bit off because I glossed over the part where you said that you averaged multiple measurements (I rarely see that sort of care when people post these kinds of measurements online).
- The Deacon
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True. I dug mine out and its PE blade is .020 Definitely among the thin ones, although not king of the hill..357 mag wrote:I would say my mini.dyad would be one of the thinnest blades.
Paul
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- The Deacon
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Except for a Terzuola SlipIt, the only Taiwan models I have are the ones the two models I listed, the Chaparral and the Sages. While I only listed the Sage I, all three of my Sages were within a couple thousandths of each other. Measured a second Chaparral yesterday, it is .015 Just measured my Terzuola, and it is .023vvs wrote:What about Taiwan-made folders, Chokwe for example ?
Given its blade is also FFG 3mm thick S30V and that it's intended for similar use, I'd expect the Chokwe to be close to the Sages, but that's just an opinion.
Paul
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Those are fine numbers Paul.
The best are in the custom knife field.
Most manufacturers don't go that far.
Fearing complaints of their customers who abuse their blades.
I have only one folder with a thinner edge and that is made by Andre Thorburn.
It measures 0.3 mm and is almost razorlike.
Not the knife you do some battoning with, if with any folder that is.
The best are in the custom knife field.
Most manufacturers don't go that far.
Fearing complaints of their customers who abuse their blades.
I have only one folder with a thinner edge and that is made by Andre Thorburn.
It measures 0.3 mm and is almost razorlike.
Not the knife you do some battoning with, if with any folder that is.
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