Sprint's turning into Laps

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:53 pm

I must be crazy too, I want to use my knives. ;)

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Postby Spider bite » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:08 pm

I say the more the merrier. It helps me get a knife in some new steel or color I have wanted to use. I do turn around and sell some of the knives I buy, But not just to make money...It's usually because the knife doesnt "fit" me, And I want to give someone a chance to use it more then I would. But I am happy just to get what I paid for that particular blade. I have to say I like the title of this thread though. lol :)
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Postby yablanowitz » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:20 pm

Military Sprint Runs:

S30V/CF - 400 pieces. I bought one LNIB for $130 three years later.
BG-42/CF - 1500 pieces. Try finding one for less than MSRP now.
CPM D-2/FG G-10 - 1200 pieces. Highly sought after - for users.
S90V/CF - 1200 pieces. I've seen these going over $400
S30V/Orange G-10 - 600, 1200, production due to demand. Boy, did that raise a stink - from speculators hoping to flip them for big bucks.
CTS-XHP/Brown G-10 - 1200 pieces I believe. Too soon to tell what the demand will be.

Notice the lowest number produced also fetched the lowest price on the secondary market. Why? I don't know, but I suspect two factors. One, not enough difference from normal production and two, not enough of them produced to gain a following. Higher production numbers put more pieces in the hands of real users. More real users will generate more feedback on the piece. If that feedback is positive (which it generally is, since Sal does his homework before he lets these things out) it will generate more interest and therefore more demand - for users. More users means fewer NIB specimens, which increases the value of those remaining. It may not make sense, but that is what I've seen happening.

To paraphrase Sal: Spyderco would rather be the knife in your pocket than the knife in your display case. To let their knife languish on the shelf is to lose ninety percent of what they put into it. They must be used to be appreciated.

Not direct quotes, but those are the gist of things he has posted in the past. I'm guessing that collector value is not a high priority to him on most sprints. I also believe he does the collectors a favor when he makes enough pieces that we aren't afraid to use them.
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Postby The Deacon » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:46 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:No offense taken, Can someone be an "investor" and a "collector"? I do love the Spyderco model. I agree to disagree that Spyderco has some level of distaste for collectors who resale their knives. If that is the case then Spyderco hates collecors/investors all the way to the bank. I think we are mostly all buying our blades from the same vendors online. That's where I get mine anyway. Cheers.
I'd say no. To me, once you commoditize something it ceases to be a collection and becomes a portfolio. Doing something for the pure enjoyment of it, without having to justify "dollar value" even to oneself, is how I think collecting ought to be. People will spend money on a vacation trip, a restaurant meal, or a night at the movies, theater, or opera house without bemoaning the absence of a monetary ROI. Then again, I fondly recall the days when the Olympic games were pure amateur sport.

I'd also contend that, since the Sprint runs which appealed primarily to collectors have rarely increased significantly in value, while those considered desirable by users have become valuable, they'd have done so even if collector and investor interest was nil.

You're certainly entitled to feel otherwise and I can respect your position while not supporting it.
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Postby SQSAR » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:47 pm

For me, sprints are usually an opportunity to score a cool new steel or handle color. Sometimes, if I'm not paying attention, I don't get in on a pre-order list for a particular sprint I might be interested in, and I miss out. That sucks, , , and for this reason I tend to agree with those who want larger runs of the sprints, and don't like those who buy up multiples of a sprint in hopes of profiting from it later.

As for those who buy sprints with the express intent of turning around and selling them for profit. Well to each his own I guess. Don't hate the player, hate the game, , so to speak. But, since I see Spydercos as 'user' knives rather than collector pieces, I find the practice of flipping knives for profit, especially sprints, a bit cheesy.

Here's an example: A Manix2 or Para2 sprint in CF and S90v. Two of the finest, most usable knives Spyderco has ever produced, , , , , can now only be had if someone wants to pay ridiculous money for them on Ebay. This is sad because S90v is meant to be used, not sit on a shelf collecting dust. Hell 420 stainless can collect dust for a lot less.

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Postby jtoler_9 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:48 pm

I like the quote from Sal above regarding why we should use our knives rather than collect. It is curious that Spyderco even offers Display cases and little acrylic stands for a spyderco knife collection.

"Eighteen-pocket SpyderPac is an impressive and safe way to carry and display your knife collection. It's half the size of the large SpyderPac and fits neatly in a suitcase or portfolio."

I am equally impressed that the general consensus on this forum is that those of us that use knives = non collectors. Especially posts from people who have thousands of posts to their credit. I would love to find the time to both use all my Spydies and type all these reviews. I envy you.

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Postby MCM » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:52 pm

Sprints are fun!

Runs going forward will probably be 800 and up. :D
:spyder: :eek: :spyder: :eek: :spyder: :eek: :spyder:
More S90v & CF please.......

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:56 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:... What are your thoughts?
jtoler_9 wrote:I like the quote from Sal above regarding why we should use our knives rather than collect. It is curious that Spyderco even offers Display cases and little acrylic stands for a spyderco knife collection.

"Eighteen-pocket SpyderPac is an impressive and safe way to carry and display your knife collection. It's half the size of the large SpyderPac and fits neatly in a suitcase or portfolio."


I am equally impressed that the general consensus on this forum is that those of us that use knives = non collectors. Especially posts from people who have thousands of posts to their credit. I would love to find the time to both use all my Spydies and type all these reviews. I envy you.
You asked for our thoughts and now that you have it, you come back with sarcasm? You're not being a very good sport about this. :p

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Postby The Deacon » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:14 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:I like the quote from Sal above regarding why we should use our knives rather than collect. It is curious that Spyderco even offers Display cases and little acrylic stands for a spyderco knife collection.

"Eighteen-pocket SpyderPac is an impressive and safe way to carry and display your knife collection. It's half the size of the large SpyderPac and fits neatly in a suitcase or portfolio."

I am equally impressed that the general consensus on this forum is that those of us that use knives = non collectors. Especially posts from people who have thousands of posts to their credit. I would love to find the time to both use all my Spydies and type all these reviews. I envy you.
I think of many of my Spydercos as highly functional jewelry, so the idea of Spyderco offering us ways to store or display them neatly, even proudly, when not in use seems perfectly consistent with Sal's idea of wanting them to be used.

But, to be honest, while I respect Sal's sentiment there, I think that, like a painting, a knife can bring enjoyment as a thing of beauty without ever cutting anything. Of course, unlike a painting, it can also function perfectly as a tool even after years on display.

I think it's possible to be both a collector and a user. I see myself as both and, in spite of any impressions you may have formed, believe quite a few others here see themselves that way as well.
Paul
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:21 pm

The Deacon wrote:I think of many of my Spydercos as highly functional jewelry, so the idea of Spyderco offering us ways to store or display them neatly, even proudly, when not in use seems perfectly consistent with Sal's idea of wanting them to be used.

But, to be honest, while I respect Sal's sentiment there, I think that, like a painting, a knife can bring enjoyment as a thing of beauty without ever cutting anything. Of course, unlike a painting, it can also function perfectly as a tool even after years on display.

I think it's possible to be both a collector and a user. I see myself as both and, in spite of any impressions you may have formed, believe quite a few others here see themselves that way as well.
Very well said Paul, I'd also say that even a knife that has been used will still have it's own unique beauty as shown by the many pictures that are often seen around the forums. Lots of used knives can still be displayed and can still be appreciated as examples of particular models.

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Postby Pinetreebbs » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:43 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:I was curious to get a general feel for how people are feeling about the most recent Spyderco Manix 2 and Military Brown "Sprint" runs. I have been collecting and trading Spyderco sprint runs for a few years now. Seems like a short while ago, sprint runs were around 500 or 600 pieces. Now sprints seem to be up in the 1000 piece range. This makes it difficult for the collector/trader like myself to keep the value of these items high. What are your thoughts?
Larger sprint runs are fine with me. My only concern is Spyderco making a profit so they can stay in business, innovate and keep make my favorite knives.

Finding sprints to buy has not been a problem. Posters here and on other knife forums have kindly posted all the necessary information. Their posts contain the ins and out of watching for and buying Sprints. Forum trades and sales along with eBay have been the source for older models, including past sprints that I was not able to buy.

Larger sprint runs might stop the boorish complaining about access to sprints, but I rather doubt it will end. It would be nice to read more about Spyderco products and less about how they should run their business.

Another argument that accompanies most Sprint discussions, Collectors Vs Users, unfortunately, this one will likely never go away. IMO, there might be a handful of knife users that have honestly worn out any knife, let alone a Spyderco, through normal use. The vast majority of us enjoy have a finely crafted tool ready to do any cutting job that needs to be done. In between there are craftsmen and women that use a knife on a daily basis, but honestly rarely need to replace their knife. There are always exceptions, but they are not the norm. Knives are such useful tools, I cannot imagine anyone collecting them and not using at least some of them.

The collector Vs the user arguments becomes especially tedious when it comes to defensive blades, if someone is wearing one of those out I do not want to know how. :eek:
The discussion Pool, How many Spydercos do you own? makes my point about use Vs collection or as some call them backups. ;)

If you own just one, several hundred or can only hope to own a Spyderco knife, I consider you a Spyderco aficionado. How you enjoy your Spyderco knife or knives is your personal business. :spyder:
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Postby Pinetreebbs » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:45 pm

The Deacon wrote:I think of many of my Spydercos as highly functional jewelry, so the idea of Spyderco offering us ways to store or display them neatly, even proudly, when not in use seems perfectly consistent with Sal's idea of wanting them to be used.

But, to be honest, while I respect Sal's sentiment there, I think that, like a painting, a knife can bring enjoyment as a thing of beauty without ever cutting anything. Of course, unlike a painting, it can also function perfectly as a tool even after years on display.

I think it's possible to be both a collector and a user. I see myself as both and, in spite of any impressions you may have formed, believe quite a few others here see themselves that way as well.
Yes! I like to call them industrial art. :D

Although they are very sharp and IMO, great looking, I have a small collection of flint tools, points and blades I would never consider using.
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Postby jtoler_9 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:03 pm

Pinetreebbs wrote:Larger sprint runs are fine with me. My only concern is Spyderco making a profit so they can stay in business, innovate and keep make my favorite knives.

Finding sprints to buy has not been a problem. Posters here and on other knife forums have kindly posted all the necessary information. Their posts contain the ins and out of watching for and buying Sprints Forum trades and sales along with eBay have been the source for older models, including past sprints that I was not able to buy.

Larger sprint runs might stop the boorish complaining about access to sprints, but I rather doubt it will end. It would be nice to read more about Spyderco products and less about how they should run their business.

Another argument that accompanies most Sprint discussions, Collectors Vs Users, unfortunately, this one will likely never go away. IMO, there might be a handful of knife users that have honestly worn out any knife, let alone a Spyderco, through normal use. The vast majority of us enjoy have a finely crafted tool ready to do any cutting job that needs to be done. In between there are craftsmen and women that use a knife on a daily basis, but honestly rarely need to replace their knife. There are always exceptions, but they are not the norm. Knives are such useful tools, I cannot imagine anyone collecting them and not using at leaset some of them.

The collector Vs the user arguments becomes especially tedious when it comes to defensive blades, if someone is wearing one of those out I do not want to know how. :eek:
The discussion Pool, How many Spydercos do you own? makes my point about use Vs collection or as some call them backups. ;)

If you own just one, several hundred or can only hope to own a Spyderco knife, I consider you a Spyderco aficionado. How you enjoy your Spyderco knife or knives is your personal business. :spyder:

I would be very interested in knowing what forums are trading forums as you call them. There are several Spydies I missed out on and I can't afford the aftermarket Ebay crowd. I wish to respect the rules that govern this forum. So I don't want to turn this into a trade conversation. But if it's allowable, I would love to know where and if you folks trade?

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Postby D56 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:05 pm

I don't understand 'sprint runs' really. But I'm only a newbie here, may well be missing something. When in USA a couple of weeks ago I saw a small Spyderco knife that looked nice for a UK EDC. I bought it after a mess with it and the shop give me a certificate of ownership, wondered WFT it was so I posted a question on here somewhere and I'm still non the wiser. :confused:

If, say they sell well and people want a flat grind manix 2 in s30v for example - why not do a sh*t load - what's the problem with giving people what they want? Everyone who has a hollow grind manix 2 seem to think it's second best...

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Postby Pinetreebbs » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:11 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:I would be very interested in knowing what forums are trading forums as you call them. There are several Spydies I missed out on and I can't afford the aftermarket Ebay crowd. I wish to respect the rules that govern this forum. So I don't want to turn this into a trade conversation. But if it's allowable, I would love to know where and if you folks trade?
Not here, there are others, but I have experience with: bladeforums and knife-bst dot com, they too have rules so do check them out.
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Postby jabba359 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:21 pm

D56 wrote:When in USA a couple of weeks ago I saw a small Spyderco knife that looked nice for a UK EDC. I bought it after a mess with it and the shop give me a certificate of ownership, wondered WFT it was so I posted a question on here somewhere and I'm still non the wiser. :confused:
What do you mean none the wiser? The way you phrase this makes it sound like nobody was helpful in answering your question, yet this couldn't be further from the truth. If you read the thread, your question was answered and you even replied later by saying you'd like to say "Hello" to the previous owner of that collector club numbered knife, implying that you understood that it was a collector's club knife and certificate.

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50717
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Postby jossta » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:21 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:I would be very interested in knowing what forums are trading forums as you call them. There are several Spydies I missed out on and I can't afford the aftermarket Ebay crowd. I wish to respect the rules that govern this forum. So I don't want to turn this into a trade conversation. But if it's allowable, I would love to know where and if you folks trade?
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Postby angusW » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:05 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:I like the quote from Sal above regarding why we should use our knives rather than collect. It is curious that Spyderco even offers Display cases and little acrylic stands for a spyderco knife collection.

"Eighteen-pocket SpyderPac is an impressive and safe way to carry and display your knife collection. It's half the size of the large SpyderPac and fits neatly in a suitcase or portfolio."

I am equally impressed that the general consensus on this forum is that those of us that use knives = non collectors. Especially posts from people who have thousands of posts to their credit. I would love to find the time to both use all my Spydies and type all these reviews. I envy you.
I believe you are confusing "Collector" with "Flipper" :D I use most of my knives but people need a way to store them. Some put them in a box. Some openly display them. A "Flipper" is not going to have them in a display case and is not buying them to use and enjoy. I've never sold a knife before but to be honest I bought the XHP Military to sell at a higher price. Received it and fell in love with it. It's now part of my collection and it will be used. I came close to the dark side of Flipperdom but thankfully I was shown the light :D
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Postby cckw » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:32 pm

I am more like the OP. Sure i have knives I use. But many i just collect. and as a collector it is more gratifying if there is increasing real world value. That is part of the difference between a collector and a hoarder.

ETA: for every knife I have as a user, I have the same model mint in my collection. I get 2 of each Sprint and each Mule.

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:59 pm

angusW wrote:I believe you are confusing "Collector" with "Flipper" :D I use most of my knives but people need a way to store them. Some put them in a box. Some openly display them. A "Flipper" is not going to have them in a display case and is not buying them to use and enjoy. I've never sold a knife before but to be honest I bought the XHP Military to sell at a higher price. Received it and fell in love with it. It's now part of my collection and it will be used. I came close to the dark side of Flipperdom but thankfully I was shown the light :D
I don't think flipping per se, is undesirable. Some knives that we might miss out on, we might be able to get from flippers(if we want them enough to pay the inflated prices). However, I do think that Spyderco must not address only the desire for the flippers to make a fast buck but also for their customers who want to try out the steels and materials that they offer at reasonable prices.


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