Sprint's turning into Laps

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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jtoler_9
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Sprint's turning into Laps

Postby jtoler_9 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:00 pm

I was curious to get a general feel for how people are feeling about the most recent Spyderco Manix 2 and Military Brown "Sprint" runs. I have been collecting and trading Spyderco sprint runs for a few years now. Seems like a short while ago, sprint runs were around 500 or 600 pieces. Now sprints seem to be up in the 1000 piece range. This makes it difficult for the collector/trader like myself to keep the value of these items high. What are your thoughts?

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Postby DeathBySnooSnoo » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:06 pm

Well, I use knives...and while I have a S90V Manix that I don't want to use just yet. I feel that people who collect Spyderco purely to make a buck should be paid no regard at all.

Trading is ok I think. Gets knives into peoples hands that will hopefully use them. But buying and selling just to make money. I think they really should have no say at all in how many or when or what materials etc. Just my opinion...no offence meant towards you personally.
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Postby jossta » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:09 pm

Materials involved play a factor. I'm pretty sure that even if there were only 400 made of that sprint run manix, it would never fetch the value of the CF S90v Manix 2. The steels used are also easier to get and work with than S90v (I think).

Makes for a nice balance of Sprints that are limited and climb in value to an extent and sprints that are just plain good materials meant for a hard user.

I don't think the quantity increase of these sprints has anything to do with a trend towards larger sprint runs. They have always been between 600 and 1200. Just depends on the model/materials.

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Postby D1omedes » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:17 pm

Since Spydies are meant to be used, I see no problem with higher numbers for sprint runs so more ELU's can try out a new/rare steel.

I'm all for higher numbers in sprint runs. :D

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Postby Donut » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:17 pm

Sprints seem to be selling faster and there has been more complaining about people not being able to get their hands on sprints.

I don't think being able to get something is true, it seems like people who heard about it late and would probably not have jumped on a pre-order are the ones who are complaining about not being able to get a sprint.

It is probably good for the people who would be buying from you and not so good for you. I kind of like to see the users posting about the sprint runs. In general, I don't like to see the desperation involved with the small numbered sprints. Seeing someone pay $350 for something that sold a month earlier for $200 is something I can deal with not seeing.
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Postby Minibear453 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:23 pm

I wish there was a way to like contact Sal, pay $30 extra, and get a sprint run knife. Although... the point of sprint runs would kind of be killed, but I'm not too fond of having to wait and missing a great knife... it would be nice to be able to buy these knives, because the same knives, but in better steel would definitely benefit those who love the knife, but have a little more cash for a better performing blade.

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Postby JLannoo » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:28 pm

DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:Well, I use knives...and while I have a S90V Manix that I don't want to use just yet. I feel that people who collect Spyderco purely to make a buck should be paid no regard at all.

Trading is ok I think. Gets knives into peoples hands that will hopefully use them. But buying and selling just to make money. I think they really should have no say at all in how many or when or what materials etc. Just my opinion...no offence meant towards you personally.

very much agree. I have no problem with collectors selling when they need some $$$. I however don't like flippers any more here then I do in my Arcade hobby

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Postby jossta » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:30 pm

You can join the collector club and you will get EVERY SINGLE SPRINT along with every other model when it comes out. Be the first to get it too.

Just sell the ones you don't want. They are also usually on the Spyderco website before they hit dealers and they don't sell too fast at MSRP. Or you could check out Bento Box Shop. They usually have higher prices and have stock longer than others. Heck, they still have Red Persians, Gray Paras and Lum tantos. If you want to pay more, it's not hard at all to get a Sprint.

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Postby jabba359 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:31 pm

Seems like lately, if someone wants a sprint, they can get their hands on one for less than MSRP. I had the chance to buy after release (but passed on): the 20CP Para 2, Lum Tanto, Massad Ayoob, and Damascus/orange bone/Ti Delica. While it makes speculating harder for those trying to flip knives for a profit, it doesn't hurt my feelings one bit, as it makes the knives more affordable and easier to find for a larger audience.
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Postby jtoler_9 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:42 pm

Again I could be naive here since I am new to this community, but I thought that collecting was the point behind the Sprint runs. I also love to use my knifes, but I have more knives than I will ever use. Unless there is some Swiss army underwear I don't own where I can put lots of extra blades? I assume most people on this forum are the same. I can't imagine that Spyderco isn't counting on the collectors, why else would they release so many Copa's for example? Value is always defined as what someone is willing to pay for something. I wish I had gotten into collecting Spyderco when you could get a Fred Perrin Bowie that was 5" of VG-10 steel for MSRP of 129.95. Unfortunately now my option is the twice as expensive Street Beat 3 1/2" VG-10 blade for MSRP 264.95. Or another fine example is the Spyderco Temperance that was over 4" of VG-10 for 79.95 MSRP. Unfortunately I missed this one also. I can get the new Temperance 2 which is almost the same amount of steel for 329.95 nearly 4X the price as it was in yesteryear. So for those of us that work for a living and have a wife and kids that limit what we can spend on our humble collections. Buying Selling and Trading may be the only way we have. Just saying. :) Nice to see all the posts. Good Forum.

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:46 pm

DeathBySnooSnoo wrote:Well, I use knives...and while I have a S90V Manix that I don't want to use just yet. I feel that people who collect Spyderco purely to make a buck should be paid no regard at all.

Trading is ok I think. Gets knives into peoples hands that will hopefully use them. But buying and selling just to make money. I think they really should have no say at all in how many or when or what materials etc. Just my opinion...no offence meant towards you personally.
My sentiments exactly!

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Postby Blerv » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:50 pm

Yea these are made as functional tools first and foremost. If not they would have dull edges and be shipped in a sterile vacuum packed bag or glass case.
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Postby jossta » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:52 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:Again I could be naive here since I am new to this community, but I thought that collecting was the point behind the Sprint runs. I also love to use my knifes, but I have more knives than I will ever use. Unless there is some Swiss army underwear I don't own where I can put lots of extra blades? I assume most people on this forum are the same. I can't imagine that Spyderco isn't counting on the collectors, why else would they release so many Copa's for example? Value is always defined as what someone is willing to pay for something. I wish I had gotten into collecting Spyderco when you could get a Fred Perrin Bowie that was 5" of VG-10 steel for MSRP of 129.95. Unfortunately now my option is the twice as expensive Street Beat 3 1/2" VG-10 blade for MSRP 264.95. Or another fine example is the Spyderco Temperance that was over 4" of VG-10 for 79.95 MSRP. Unfortunately I missed this one also. I can get the new Temperance 2 which is almost the same amount of steel for 329.95 nearly 4X the price as it was in yesteryear. So for those of us that work for a living and have a wife and kids that limit what we can spend on our humble collections. Buying Selling and Trading may be the only way we have. Just saying. :) Nice to see all the posts. Good Forum.
The point is to let users experience new exotic materials in different platforms. Collecting is just a side effect. Sal and Co would rather the knives get used than sit in a collection.

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Postby The Deacon » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:03 pm

jtoler_9 wrote:I was curious to get a general feel for how people are feeling about the most recent Spyderco Manix 2 and Military Brown "Sprint" runs. I have been collecting and trading Spyderco sprint runs for a few years now. Seems like a short while ago, sprint runs were around 500 or 600 pieces. Now sprints seem to be up in the 1000 piece range. This makes it difficult for the collector/trader like myself to keep the value of these items high. What are your thoughts?
No offense meant, but you sound more like an investor than a collector. Spyderco's logic for producing Sprints is to offer things folks want. That can be a second chance at a discontinued classic, a hard use model in an exotic steel, or a popular model dolled up with a special scale material. AFAIK, investment potential has never been part of their agenda and I hope it never will be.

As for numbers. The first few Sprints, and all of those involving models made in Japan have been approximately 1200 pieces, since that's the minimum order Spyderco must place there. It sometimes gets divided up into 600 each PE and SE, but it's still a 1200 piece run. One of the earliest, the grey Calypso Jr. saw two additional runs produced to meet continued demand. Don't recall a single complaint about those runs "devaluing" someones investment. Do recall a LOT of happy users.

US made sprints have varied a lot more, from 300 to over 1000. I can think of older ones that were small (CF/S30V Military), and older ones that were large (CF/BG-42 Military). What Spyderco considers a safe quantity in terms of not exceeding demand is one factor. Another factor, if exotic steel is involved, can be how many blades the "minimum order" quantity of steel Spyderco has to purchase will produce. Spyderco has also been getting a lot of comments from folks wanting larger Sprint runs, so assuming your figures on the recent Manix 2 and Military ones are correct, that may be a factor too. Then too, at least some of those Manix 2 runs may not have been Sprints but sponsored exclusives where the sponsor, not Spyderco, decides the quantity. I certainly would not have the audacity to tell Spyderco they had to limit the number of knives a dealer, distributor, or other company could pay to have made for them.

As a collector, I'll continue to at least attempt to buy any Sprint that intrigues me and pass on those which do not and will do that regardless of how "rare" or common it will be.
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Postby DeathBySnooSnoo » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:04 pm

It is a god point about the Kopa. I think that while they were meant to be used (in a more gentlemanly fashion) I think that they were released with a collector in mind at least. But I think that sprints are meant to allow users to get a feel for new materials, then Spyderco gets feedback and can get an idea as to whether or not to use a material in a full production knife. Now a lot of the times due to cost and availability that might not happen. But for us to get to use some of these materials at the cost that Spyderco makes them available is amazing. It's when flippers start charging $350 and up that I really have to stop because at that price I could get a full custom using the same materials.
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Postby Evil D » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:10 pm

My thoughts are that Spyderco doesn't make sprint runs so people can buy them and price them for 3x what they were bought for, so they don't have that mentality when deciding how many to produce.
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Postby WalzAaronFFG » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:22 pm

Invest in something other than knives.
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Postby jtoler_9 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:22 pm

The Deacon wrote:No offense meant, but you sound more like an investor than a collector. Spyderco's logic for producing Sprints is to offer things folks want. That can be a second chance at a discontinued classic, a hard use model in an exotic steel, or a popular model dolled up with a special scale material. AFAIK, investment potential has never been part of their agenda and I hope it never will be.

As for numbers. The first few Sprints, and all of those involving models made in Japan have been approximately 1200 pieces, since that's the minimum order Spyderco must place there. It sometimes gets divided up into 600 each PE and SE, but it's still a 1200 piece run. One of the earliest, the grey Calypso Jr. saw two additional runs produced to meet continued demand. Don't recall a single complaint about those runs "devaluing" someones investment. Do recall a LOT of happy users.

US made sprints have varied a lot more, from 300 to over 1000. I can think of older ones that were small (CF/S30V Military), and older ones that were large (CF/BG-42 Military). What Spyderco considers a safe quantity in terms of not exceeding demand is one factor. Another factor, if exotic steel is involved, can be how many blades the "minimum order" quantity of steel Spyderco has to purchase will produce. Spyderco has also been getting a lot of comments from folks wanting larger Sprint runs, so assuming your figures on the recent Manix 2 and Military ones are correct, that may be a factor too. Then too, at least some of those Manix 2 runs may not have been Sprints but sponsored exclusives where the sponsor, not Spyderco, decides the quantity. I certainly would not have the audacity to tell Spyderco they had to limit the number of knives a dealer, distributor, or other company could pay to have made for them.

As a collector, I'll continue to at least attempt to buy any Sprint that intrigues me and pass on those which do not and will do that regardless of how "rare" or common it will be.
No offense taken, Can someone be an "investor" and a "collector"? I do love the Spyderco model. I agree to disagree that Spyderco has some level of distaste for collectors who resale their knives. If that is the case then Spyderco hates collecors/investors all the way to the bank. I think we are mostly all buying our blades from the same vendors online. That's where I get mine anyway. Cheers.

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Postby Donut » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:38 pm

Honestly, I don't think there is any hate involved. Spyderco is happy that their product is selling and it doesn't have to go any further than that.

They are listening to what the customer wants, and the vocal customer wants some crazy things.
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Postby DeathBySnooSnoo » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:47 pm

Donut wrote:the vocal customer wants some crazy things.
Yes, yes I do! :D :D :D :D
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