Success in very sharp sharpening!!!!!

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troutfisher13111
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Postby troutfisher13111 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:20 am

I will probably stay with free hand sharpening, I prefer it to sharpening devices.

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dbcad
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Postby dbcad » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:42 pm

Even though I've had this one very succesful day with multiple knives I still recognize that in the realm of sharpening I am still a novice of novices. All I can do is continue to read, learn and practice getting the positively silly :eek: edges if I want them until I get extremely comfortable doing it. The muscle memory will continue to reinforce over time.......

The SM is what gave me the confidence to continue initially. Pretty easily I was able to get decent edges with it, ones that would cut paper, but with the snags and pulls sometimes. Over time as I learned and understood more about what I was doing the results kept getting more consistent. The Sharpmaker was my gateway to getting edges reasonably sharp. Follow the common sense SM techniques that so frequently pop up here, ie.: Use it standing up, sharpie trick, keep the stones clean, focus on vertical, take your time with slow strokes, try a few very light last passes with the blade tang angled slightly outward, etc. My technique on the SM is still less than perfect :o

More important is the reading and understanding of what I was doing, purchasing an inexpensive loupe to be able to see what I was doing (sharpie trick is great :D ), and a vow to stop trying anytime I started feeling frustrated. The tips, knowledge, and good natured encouragement here on the forum helped immensely :) As Chuck put it, the biggest factor in how sharp an edge gets are the skills of the the sharpener.

I would very much enjoy helping others to achieve the same results if I can :) Even though my skill is inferior to many here on the forum. I do suspect I have the sharpest knives at my work though :D
Charlie

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Donut
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Postby Donut » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:42 pm

dbcad wrote: More important is the reading and understanding of what I was doing, purchasing an inexpensive loupe to be able to see what I was doing (sharpie trick is great :D ), and a vow to stop trying anytime I started feeling frustrated.
In my opinion, this is one of the important things to do. You can take a break for a few minutes, a few days, or a few months. That break is important and can save you a lot of headache.
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troutfisher13111
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Postby troutfisher13111 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:21 pm

Donut wrote:In my opinion, this is one of the important things to do. You can take a break for a few minutes, a few days, or a few months. That break is important and can save you a lot of headache.
Agreed. There are some days where I am worse than others. I have learned that on those days it is best i put the knife and stone down.

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Postby mongatu » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:23 pm

troutfisher13111 wrote:Agreed. There are some days where I am worse than others. I have learned that on those days it is best i put the knife and stone down.
Those are the days I use a strop. :D
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Caly~3.5 (VG-10 & S. Blue); Para2~(20CP~M390~S30v); Military~(M390~S30v); Endura & Delica~4~FFG; Native~(S30v); Caly~Jr.~(ZDP); Manix~2~(M4); Ladybug~3~(VG-10. SE); Mules~(M390).

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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:59 pm

mongatu wrote:Those are the days I use a strop. :D
A diamond paste loaded strop can quickly dull your edge on an off day. ;)

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jackknifeh
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Postby jackknifeh » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:56 pm

chuck_roxas45 wrote:A diamond paste loaded strop can quickly dull your edge on an off day. ;)
This can be true. I would like to say that I like strops with diamond paste but for the record I've never tried anything else. I have two sets I've made. I have 3 cowhide strops with 6, 3 and 1 micron DMT diamond paste. I also have 3 horse hide strops with the same paste. The horse hide is a lot harder than the cow hide. The diamond paste (I think) cuts fast as far as stropping compounds because diamonds are hard. In addition to putting a hair whittling edge on a knife they also polish very nicely. Again, I've never tried anything else except the $20 strop from Knives Plus which worked good also, just not as good so my opinion is limited. But as you said Chuck, if you lift the spine too high with too much pressure you'll get a burr that will kill an edge. So if I find myself not feeling like paying attention, am distracted or whatever I'll stop.

I'd like to add to dbcad's thank you to the forum members for their help in learning many details to getting the really sharp edges. Thank you forum folks.

Jack

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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:33 pm

jackknifeh wrote:This can be true. I would like to say that I like strops with diamond paste but for the record I've never tried anything else. I have two sets I've made. I have 3 cowhide strops with 6, 3 and 1 micron DMT diamond paste. I also have 3 horse hide strops with the same paste. The horse hide is a lot harder than the cow hide. The diamond paste (I think) cuts fast as far as stropping compounds because diamonds are hard. In addition to putting a hair whittling edge on a knife they also polish very nicely. Again, I've never tried anything else except the $20 strop from Knives Plus which worked good also, just not as good so my opinion is limited. But as you said Chuck, if you lift the spine too high with too much pressure you'll get a burr that will kill an edge. So if I find myself not feeling like paying attention, am distracted or whatever I'll stop.

I'd like to add to dbcad's thank you to the forum members for their help in learning many details to getting the really sharp edges. Thank you forum folks.

Jack
I've tried green compound Jack and it's a little less aggressive than diamond paste, but even bare leather dulls a knife when stropped on a wrong angle. I do like the results of my diamond pastes on balsa wood a lot.

I do think strops are very nice when delving into the dark side. :D

But even while touching up on the sharpmaker, I don't move from the brown rods if I don't get at least hair whittling on that stone. The white, UF, and strops are just the icing on the cake. :D

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Ankerson
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Postby Ankerson » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:49 pm

Green compound is .5 Micron and AO so it's not very aggressive so it gives one some room for error in not dulling the edge too fast.

As with most stropping it's all about angle and less is better as is a light touch to really refine the edge and or remove the burr.

I find green compound great for doing the finial stropping when working with coarse edges after I remove the burr, just a few strokes and it's there and what that does is leave an extremely sharp edge that is also still aggressive.

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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:47 pm

Ankerson wrote:Green compound is .5 Micron and AO so it's not very aggressive so it gives one some room for error in not dulling the edge too fast.

As with most stropping it's all about angle and less is better as is a light touch to really refine the edge and or remove the burr.

I find green compound great for doing the finial stropping when working with coarse edges after I remove the burr, just a few strokes and it's there and what that does is leave an extremely sharp edge that is also still aggressive.
Oh yeh, it's what I strop factory edges touched up on the SM on.

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Postby ToneGrail » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:43 pm

Ankerson wrote:It's snagging becasuse there is a burr in some spots along the edge.

A shortcut and the easy way to remove that burr without having to spend anymore money is the following.

Take that blade and increase the angle slightly, instead of the blade being straight up and down. Using the UF STONES increase the angle a few degrees by tilting the knife AWAY from the rod on each side and make a few VERY LIGHT strokes on each side of the blade. Test the edge, and if needed repeat the process.

A strop is easier though.
I tried this but it doesnt seem to make a difference. I've also tried using very light pressure.

When using the Sharpmaker normally, I do notice that I'm able to get a factory sharp edge on my Endura, but not my Tenacious. I wonder if it has anything to do with the type of steel.

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Donut
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Postby Donut » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:17 pm

What I have been telling people to do if I think they have a burr is to use cardboard to strop it. I would even hold the blade at an extreme angle like 45 degrees from the surface then repeat the last step of your sharpening after. You are almost dragging the edge on the cardboard then resetting the edge minus the burr.
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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:47 pm

ToneGrail wrote: When using the Sharpmaker normally, I do notice that I'm able to get a factory sharp edge on my Endura, but not my Tenacious. I wonder if it has anything to do with the type of steel.
Nope. It's your technique.

docwatson
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Postby docwatson » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:17 pm

+1 on the cardboard, I have both a razor strop and a leather belt, but I swear the cardboard seems to really finish the edge better for me!

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Ankerson
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Postby Ankerson » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:47 pm

ToneGrail wrote:I tried this but it doesnt seem to make a difference. I've also tried using very light pressure.

When using the Sharpmaker normally, I do notice that I'm able to get a factory sharp edge on my Endura, but not my Tenacious. I wonder if it has anything to do with the type of steel.
You aren't using enough angle and or pressure, all you are doing this for is to knock off the burr.

You might have to do it a few times to get all of it.

cr123
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good job on knife sharpening

Postby cr123 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:52 pm

cool beans with the sharpening. the SM system really opened my eyes to sharpening stuff and i find myself using the knives more because I maintain the edges myself.

The more i sharpen stuff, the more patience i get and the results get incrementally better.

i tried stropping with red compound on notepad cardboard and it helped refine the edge more after the UF rods. i'll do my best to maintain the edge with stropping vs using the knife so much that i 'll need to use the diamond or brown rods to bring it back. :0)

go team Spydie.

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sal
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Postby sal » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:41 am

Congrats Charlie.

Sharpening edges is skill that can be thought of as an art form. Green belt, brown belt, etc. Like many skills, there is no subsitute for experience and focus. I always recommend a 10X to 12X Loupe that is used often (using a loupe is also a skill) to see the edge, scratch patterns and directions, grits, etc.

When I made the video for the Sharpmaker, part of the purpose was to help edge-u-cate our customers in understanding the creation of an edge.

sal

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Ankerson
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Postby Ankerson » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:45 am

I still have that Sharp Marker Video on VHS Tape.. :eek:

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dbcad
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Postby dbcad » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:23 am

Glad this thread has wound up being so positive and informative :) Always good to learn from folks more knowledgeable and skilled than I :)

The mathematical part of me thinks of sharpness as falling somewhere on an asymptotic curve. Attaining the "zero" edge is ultimately impossible. How close you get to that "zero" edge is ultimately determined by the skill and technique of the sharpener.

In that sense it is an art, one that I can better at only by increasing my own experience and skill. Patience, openess, and a faith that I will get better over time has served me well so far. I can only trust it will continue to serve well in the future.
Charlie

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[CENTER]"Integrity is being good even if no one is watching"[/CENTER]

troutfisher13111
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Postby troutfisher13111 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:19 am

Can just the DVD be bought?


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