Solution to Sprint Run Supply and Demand

[chuck_roxas45]

... No problem for five years.

Doesn't mean that things can't be improved on.

Don't want to second guess Sal, but I wonder what he had in mind when he asked for ideas. cough, cough...improving the current situation...cough, cough

[jackknifeh]

Just hope that after reading through this thread, Spyderco doesn't decide the whole thing is not worth the hassle. Because even with the problems and frustrations, it is a great thing that they make these sprint run knives available at a reasonable price.

I haven't read every post in this thread but I'd like to agree openly with mongatu. Whatever Spyderco's reasoning is behind sprint runs I hope they keep it up. If it is partly to get the customer's who are more dedicated to Spyderco products a better chance to get one of these special knives I'm all for that. If I had a company like Spyderco I may even make a few pieces of a special model then sell them secretly to a select group as a way of saying thank you. This would be a one per customer situation. I don't like it when someone buys 10 of these models to sell them at double the price when there are none left through the normal channels. I'm just one of many who feel this way. If I don't or can't get a sprint model I just pretend it doesn't exist and no hard feelings.

Jack

[Joshua J.]

My first thought is to put a S90V or 20CP model up for limited production. If demand is not enough to warrant full production, but far more than the sprint runs supply, then limited production seems to be the answer.
There are already several models that are on limited production because they fill an important role in the line-up, but don't actually move many units.
I think part of the problem may be that no-one at the Spyderco factory wants to face a world where they are going to work with super steel on a regular basis. As of yet something like S90V has only been used in sprint runs, and I have a feeling that the difficulties in working with the steel have something to do with it.

My other best suggestion is to make sprint runs in super steel more common, once or twice a year (a form of limited production I guess). As long as people know that another run is coming the secondary market should be somewhat subdued.

[Jonj480]

I have mixed feelings about this. I missed on the S90V Para 2 originally, but was able to get one later from a forum member for a reasonable trade. I am not one to buy a knife though, leave it in it's box and put it in a safe - it's just not my thing. I put in pre-orders for the gray para 2 as soon as I found out about it, got lucky with one already and was told there was a good chance I might wind up with another. I don't have a problem with some of the inflated prices, if I think it is too high, I just don't need it that bad. I will pay more for upgraded steel, and will likely pass on a handle color change. Just my .02.

Is there a better way to manage it, probably. Is it worth the overhaul, probably not. No matter what Spyderco does to change the current process, someone will be unhappy. The only other fair way is to use a lottery system where people pay a refundable deposit directly to spyderco to enter, and they draw lots. If 300 people enter, but there are 600 knives, 300 go to dealers for resale. If 700 people enter, and there are 600 knives - Spyderco can decide to make more, or 100 people are SOL. The main problem with this is there is a huge administration process with this type of system, and it cuts their dealers out. The only way to prevent that would be to require you to buy a spot in the lottery through a dealer and the #s are randomly generated. Howes might get 200 sales, knifecenter 200, etc. If it is totally randomly generated though in theory it would be fair and it would even out. The only problem is it takes the dealer's flexibility away from a pricing perspective. No one will buy a lottery ticket if their price will be $20 more from company A, etc. It would promote price fixing (not a good thing).

Sorry for the ramble... lol

[Jonj480]

Please DONT stop making the Sprints Sal.... No matter the hassle and time spent trying to acquire one, there is a big reason why we all do it... They are ABSOLUTELY worth the effort.

Consequently, that is why people also complain about not being able to get one.

[angusW]

The sprint only collector club does sound like a good idea. I only have two sprints but wish I got in on time on a couple others. No ones fault but mine.

With the sprint collector club (SCC) you would be guaranteed the sprints and Spyderco would be guaranteed the demand to a closer degree of certainty. A slight variation is you wouldn't necessary have to be in the sprint collectors club. It would just be an option for people. Say 200 spots in the SCC and then 300-1000 in the non-SCC for retailers and it gives people who do not want to be part of the SCC a chance at the sprint being offered.

It is a bit tricky to get more sprints out to more people without Spyderco sitting on extras.

[chuck_roxas45]

... They are ABSOLUTELY worth the effort.

Consequently, that is why people also complain about not being able to get one.

Oh yeh!

[Pinetreebbs]

Please DONT stop making the Sprints Sal.... No matter the hassle and time spent trying to acquire one, there is a big reason why we all do it... They are ABSOLUTELY worth the effort.

Consequently, that is why people also complain about not being able to get one.

+1 on this!

[Donut]

I feel bad for whoever has to make sense out of this thread.

There is a lot to be said about Sprints, but with 95% bickering, fighting, and whining, there is so far and few meaningful suggestions in this thread.

It might as well be closed and the conclusion be that people care about the Sprints, but cannot provide any good information about what can be changed about them.

Many of the people who would have good suggestions have chosen to keep quiet in this thread.

[RedRunner]

I feel bad for whoever has to make sense out of this thread.

I was about to write something similar. There are so many opinions and they are almost horizontally opposed. I was not trying to be argumentative in my posts. I just don't see a good solution that meets everyone's needs and to some degree I think people may not realize what their wants means for Spyderco. I suspect there is a big investment attached to some of the wants, especially ones that require Spyderco to purchase expensive materials, increase equipment, labor and facilities. From my perspective I think it's reasonable to throw it out on the table, but there is a lot of analysis Spyderco has to do. If I were them, I'd want to maintain my small, successful size and not risk expansion. I respect that concept and that's why I generally feel the status quo is fine. I used to share the feelings of a few others on here and say if I don't get a Sprint I want, so be it. Now I'm a CC member and I get the ones I want and honestly I keep some basic production runs, just because - I don't even know why I do it. I guess it's growing on me.

Anyway, I feel like we can only ask so much of this great company. If we have some good ideas then that's great. But simply saying produce more S90Vs and lower the cost, isn't the answer. I know that's not what everyone is saying, but there is an underlying message of being upset because we can't get one at the heavily/moderately discounted price. I think if you want the Black Friday sale you have to stand in line for the deal. I don't stand in line for those deals, but I will for Spyderco - partly because it's really not much of a line and I can do it all while enjoyably surfing the web and reading about my favorite knife company...not exactly hard labor in my opinion and it's been relatively easy to pick up every Sprint I wanted. I respect the fact that some folks have had problems getting them, but I truly believe if you put a little effort into it, it's pretty easy to get them. It is a good idea to develop a good relationship with a Dealer. Jumping from Dealer to Dealer is okay if you want the cheapest possible price, but you can't expect those guys to give you the famed Sprint knife at those prices when they come out. They are going to send them to their dedicated, loyal customers. That is truly the American way. That's what airlines do, hotels, banks, you name it. The only folks that give to those with their hands out is the federal government...one step away from socialism. Not to knock it, but you do need to significantly lower your expectations in a socialist society. I've been there and I know what it's like. I prefer the American way and I'm prepared to work for it.

Anyway - we've had 360 degrees of opinions and that leads me to believe the answer might just be the status quo, although we did hear some good ideas...but didn't really have much of a consensus. I did my best at 4 of them and I see folks shot them down pretty well. With that, I'm back to saying the Status Quo is just fine. It was a good exercise to prove that the current process is the best we can do right now.

[chuck_roxas45]

I bet Sal is regretting asking for ideas. :D

I do hereby apologize for getting passionate about this. I hope that you guys will understand that it was only because I am crazy about spydies.

[Donut]

Yeah, maybe it is too difficult to have a good answer to.

[RedRunner]

I bet Sal is regretting asking for ideas. :D

I do hereby apologize for getting passionate about this. I hope that you guys will understand that it was only because I am crazy about spydies.

I'm with you on that! I think we are all crazy about them. It boarders on down right obsession! :D Spyderco makes the greatest knives. I've said in other posts that the company is the epitome of a successful company. It will probably be the legend of the next Harvard Business school case study. Then we'll see the GEs of the world trying to mimic some element of success at a macro level and watch it fail miserably. I'm sure if you really look, the heart of Spyderco lies in the dedicated staff. It's not something you can bottle up into the next great management philosophy.

[Armalite Native]

Yeah, maybe it is too difficult to have a good answer to.

I don't know if that is true - the paid membership idea with sprints coming direct and only from Spyderco was completely ignored. It works for other knife makers...why not this place?

[RedRunner]

I don't know if that is true - the paid membership idea with sprints coming direct and only from Spyderco was completely ignored. It works for other knife makers...why not this place?

It cuts out the Dealer which isn't fair to them. And I think the Mules are a management nightmare for Spyderco. Seems like a real hassle, but they do it for us. It's a lot to ask of the company. Traditionally companies work through a retail outlet, such as a Dealer base, to handle the menotomy of those details.

[Armalite Native]

Fair enough - but my interests are with the products and company - not the dealers. Emerson still have enough stockist despite their sprint runs going direct from the company.

I still think its a valid idea - even if dealers lose out on their markups on 5 units.

[Phrenik]

I also wanted to add an important feature. I know it can be bypassed, through friends, family etc buying more items for you; BUT there are a few dealers that I call on occasion and create a report of whom I purchase from and find out minute details. FOR EXAMPLE, [I won't name the site, it is a fairly big knife seller, and it isn't a bad statement at all - actually for this, it is actually a very good for most way of selling]

- is that they check customers and limits their pre-order to one knife [say they ordered 2] and after most of their line is done [done by time of purchase/pre-order - its fair business to apply first come first serve imo] then, if they have more/get more, they will go through the line and sell another.

--Ex. 25 knife knife 'P''s are made. 20 pre-orders are made at Online Store LMNOP. Customer #1 and #2 asked to buy 2 of knife 'P'. Customers number 3 through 15,19,20 only want/bought 1. Customers # 16,#17, #18 purchased 2. They would, I assume go back and sell to customers #1,2,16,17,18 a second knife after having first sold all 20 customers 1 knife 'P'. [say their first batch was 10, second batch 15. they sell 10 knives to customers 1-10, then next batch they sell customers 10-20 and the remaining to those who asked for a 2nd. Based upon time of purchase seniority.]

--Instead of a situation some are imagining, are when "the early bird gets the worm", and say for EX. [using the same as above] 25 knives made.
-25 Knife 'P' is made and sent to store LMNOP, 20 different customers place pre orders. However, customer number 1 wants to purchase 5, customer#2 wants 3, customer number 3 also decide to buy 5. customers 4-20 want 1. In this situation Store LMNOP decides to sell first come first serve, and fill their orders as it is. So 5 knives go to customer#1, 3 to #2, and 5 to #3. And whats left is customers 4-16 receive 1 knife 'P' and numbers 17-20 miss out.

And as always people may purchase multiples at multiple sites for various reasons. But it is nice to know that some stores at least practice the first situation of filling peoples orders of 1 first, then coming back and filling people who want more. Although tbh I do not know if this is because it is a popular knife, and this action was taken, or it occurs all the time. Because I do know some stores and that operate in the second example. Neither are wrong; everyone has the right to run and sell items of their business as they wish. I just wanted to give examples.

[chuck_roxas45]

Well, so I guess that's it. Status quo will probably be the result of all this. It was just a matter of who screamed loudest.

[JCP1969]

My first thought is to put a S90V or 20CP model up for limited production. If demand is not enough to warrant full production, but far more than the sprint runs supply, then limited production seems to be the answer.
There are already several models that are on limited production because they fill an important role in the line-up, but don't actually move many units.
I think part of the problem may be that no-one at the Spyderco factory wants to face a world where they are going to work with super steel on a regular basis. As of yet something like S90V has only been used in sprint runs, and I have a feeling that the difficulties in working with the steel have something to do with it.

My other best suggestion is to make sprint runs in super steel more common, once or twice a year (a form of limited production I guess). As long as people know that another run is coming the secondary market should be somewhat subdued.

good ideas!

Not necessarily relevant to thread

I don't think this thread has been overwhelming at all. I think it has a lot of what Spyderco wants from its forum. ideas. If they won't work I am sure they can quickly disregard them. . I personally will never buy into the sprint hype because it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If I can get one great. If not I will survive. My own value isn't based on my knife collection.I love the regular production models and since I can trust that Spyderco will bring us the better steel in a production model as soon as it is feasible they will . I don't think a price reduction was part of anyones complaints. I personally think the sprints are priced very fairly. Spyderco could easily up the price based on demand depending on the model and its projected popularity.
I will not make any assumptions as to what makes for headaches for Spyderco . I do know sometimes in life you have to rack your brain to come up with ideas and if that means you get a little headache so be it.

The idea of secretly selling knives to a few select best customers honestly sounds like a bad idea. #1 cause I would never qualify only because of $ . I think what qualifies as a best customer can not always be valuated by how much they spend. There are some who deserve what they get because of the effort they have put into this forum and other endeavors that help spyderco. I am not and never will be one of those people. They are truly dedicated and have a style that gives them that ability. There is a lot of guys who I personally have met at a dealer who are on the web not looking for the best deal, but looking at reviews and whats new. Who are just as dedicated to spyderco but have limited resources and on that day they have saved enough they are there like a kid in a candy store, but know exactly what they want. Those are the spydie nuts that I have high regards for. To see how excited they get is what got me looking at spydercos. I honestly understand their excitement now. Not one I met ever was considering resale value as a reason for their purchase. They are the type who when asked, do you want the box? they will likely say no. The simple pleasures.
My point all those spyderco lovers (user , collectors and both) have a equal part in the equation that makes spyderco successful IMHO.

[Mwalle6]

I haven't read this entire thread, but I would like to throw an idea out there. Please keep in mind I know zero about the manufacturing business.

The biggest challenge I see with the production of Sprint Runs is that the Gentlemen at Spyderco have to gauge the demand for a model before they order materials, which Sal has said is usually 9-10 months prior to delivery. Obviously they do not want their supply to exceed demand on these harder and more expensive to manufacture models. I also am assuming that the steel is much harder to get than handle materials.

Here is my idea. Of course all of the numbers and materials are hypothetical.

If Spyderco thinks they can sell 1,000 of a Dragonfly Sprint with S90v and Carbon Fiber Scales. They also project selling 1,000 Delica's with D2 and Tan G-10. They order enough of each material to make 1,200 of each. Make runs of 300-400 every few months until demand is quenched or the materials run out, whichever comes first. If they all sell out...great. If not, they are left with a surplus of raw materials. Use those raw materials in a "super sprint run". Mix and match what you have left over to make another knife. Waste not want not.

I do realize the new "super sprints" will become the more sought after models that demand a high price on the secondary market. With the way the sprints sell...these super sprints will probably be few and far between. Of course it will be up to Spyderco on how to distribue the super sprints. I would suggest selling them on some type of lottery or raffle system directly from the SFO, giving everyone an equal chance to own one.

This seems like a way to take some of the risk out of it for Spyderco while allowing more people access to the sprint run knives.

If you made it this far thanks for reading.