Removing delrin spacer Millie

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toomzz
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Removing delrin spacer Millie

Postby toomzz » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:42 am

Hi Guys,

Can anyone tell me the use of the delrin spacer on the back of the Military?
Any effect in function when I remove this 'piece of plastic'?

Tomas
Tom

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Orion's Belt
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Postby Orion's Belt » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:53 am

It serves to provide rigidity and strength to the handle. I've heard of people using stand-offs in place of the back spacer or changing it out for a Ti, G10 or CF replacement, but have never heard of removing it all together. Unless you plan on putting something else there to keep the structure of the handle, it will not work.

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Postby Mako109 » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:05 am

Toomzz - I saw the pic of your CF Millie and like you, I removed the spacer. I did it a long time ago and notice no effect on the structural rigidity or function of the knife. There are others on this forum who have done likewise and perhaps they will chime in on their experiences. Looks a lot better too :)

I dimly recall a post from a credible source on this forum that the original design intent of the spacer was for structure AND for the placement of a small glow capsule/stick. However, the latter never made it into regular production.

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Postby VashHash » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:17 am

I've heard of people taking the standoffs out of the delrin and using those. It makes the knife completely open and really easy to clean. I'm tempted to do it to my CF S90V millie. I believe the ti models have an aluminium backspacer.

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toomzz
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Postby toomzz » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:39 am

Indeed I heard or read something about a tritium-glowtube that had initially to be added in the Millie-grip. It is a most likely place to install one, in the delrin-spacer. I removed both the spacer in an older model 440V and in the S90V. The stand-offs are in the spacer, so actually the spacer is only stuck between these stand-offs.

It still might be an idea to develop a spacer with such a device that could be added to your millie. Any thoughts?
Tom

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Postby Sequimite » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:31 pm

The spacer serves one other function. One's hand presses against it whether using the choil or gripped further back, making for a more comfortable grip during heavy and/or extended cutting.
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toomzz
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Postby toomzz » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:11 pm

Sequimite wrote:The spacer serves one other function. One's hand presses against it whether using the choil or gripped further back, making for a more comfortable grip during heavy and/or extended cutting.
hmm....that makes sense.... In that case I could add a nice new spacer made of G10. Orange on that black G10 or CF :rolleyes:
All better than that plastic-coffee-machine-piece
Tom

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Postby N. Brian Huegel » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:34 pm

IMO, I believe that any modification in this regard will weaken the structural and locking integrity of the Military Model, one if not the strongest linerlocks made. Removing the backspacer or adding barrel spacers will allow the handle to twist, flex, and shift under extreme force which is what the back spacer is designed (through Spyderco’s extensive testing) to prevent. Creating a knife that is "no more than necessary, no less than perfect" is their goal and that if it made sense to build the Military with barrel spacers they would already be there. A Spyderco model that comes to mind that does have an ‘open back’ construction is the ParaMilitary, however, the barrel spacer (which utilizes the same part as the stop pin) is also counter-bored into the liners/handle covers to maximize structural and locking strength. It is also a Compression Lock; an entirely different mechanism. Perhaps something we will see in the Military 2.
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Postby Water Bug » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:35 pm

I figure Sal and Eric know what they're doing when they design their knives, so I just leave them as they are. There's a reason for everything, I'm sure Sal has his reasons for designing the Spyderco Military the way he did... and, that's good enough for me.
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Postby JNewell » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:29 pm

Water Bug wrote:I figure Sal and Eric know what they're doing when they design their knives, so I just leave them as they are. There's a reason for everything, I'm sure Sal has his reasons for designing the Spyderco Military the way he did... and, that's good enough for me.
Yes. I've removed backspacers and replaced with standoffs on B*made knives after the manufacturer has done the same. If they have done it, I figure it works. I'm not interested in free-lancing, but that's an individual choice.

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Postby Water Bug » Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:06 pm

JNewell wrote:Yes. I've removed backspacers and replaced with standoffs on B*made knives after the manufacturer has done the same. If they have done it, I figure it works. I'm not interested in free-lancing, but that's an individual choice.
Oh, yes, you are right... it's absolutely an individual's choice on what they do with their knives. My choice is to stay with what Sal intended. To do otherwise may not necessarily make it right or wrong; however, I at least know that staying with Sal's design and reason will make the knife work as Sal intended... and, that's good enough for me.

To each his or her own.
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Postby Fred Sanford » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:30 pm

My standard CPM-S30V Military has an aluminum backspacer. I scratched it to see, no plastic at all.
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Postby toomzz » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:08 am

How about this? Orange G10, or is that too much on black?
Makes the handle both stiff and visible....

;)
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Postby toomzz » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:29 am

Better picture, both framed orange...
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Postby SteelIsReal » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:35 am

I think it would be better if the orange G10 spacer was flush with the scales and squared off at each end.
While it probably works fine from a structural point of view, it looks like a giant orange jellybean got squashed in between the scales.

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toomzz
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Postby toomzz » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:34 pm

SteelIsReal wrote:...it looks like a giant orange jellybean got squashed in between the scales....
Hahahahaha, LOL, more reason to leave it there!
I has the same shape as the original black delrin ones...

:D
Tom

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Postby brj » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:50 pm

I have removed the delrin backspacer from 4 of my older Millies and have detected no negative impact on the structural integrity of the handle in usage; on newer models (>2009 I think, the backspacer is aluminum)

Image

some info from Sal on the topic here
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Postby JNewell » Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:57 pm

Actually, Sal's post indicates that he believes that the backspacer is serving an important role in preserving the stability and rigidity of the Military. Therefore, removing it apparently weakens the knife. Whether that is going to present a functional or safety problem for your uses is hard to say...

brj wrote:I have removed the delrin backspacer from 4 of my older Millies and have detected no negative impact on the structural integrity of the handle in usage; on newer models (>2009 I think, the backspacer is aluminum)

some info from Sal on the topic here
sal wrote:Hi BRJ,

The Military was one of the early "open-backed" models in production. The original backspacer was created to house a "glow-in-the-dark" capsule that would show through holes in the scale as well as add a degree of stiffness without adding much weight.

Although we have made numerous minor refinements to the model, the Military is ready for a major design overhaul. The backspacer is something that will be changed (as well as the clip). We've not yet decided the best method to maintain the stiffness of the relatively large handle without the "triangulation" created by the current spacer. We have to add fuller liners to accomodate the clip screws so more options for stiffness will be available.

sal

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Postby type00rev » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:02 pm

VashHash wrote:I've heard of people taking the standoffs out of the delrin and using those. It makes the knife completely open and really easy to clean. I'm tempted to do it to my CF S90V millie. I believe the ti models have an aluminium backspacer.
I just checked my Ti-M4 Millie....you are correct about the aluminum back spacer.
David Lowry wrote:My standard CPM-S30V Military has an aluminum backspacer. I scratched it to see, no plastic at all.
David, what's the date code on your S30V Millie? Perhaps Spyderco has moved to putting aluminum back spacers in the current production Military. My old S30V Millie dated AG (01/07) sports a delrin spacer.

Question for both of you gentleman. Is the aluminum tapped to accept the handle screws or is a push in stand off still used as with the delrin spacers?

Thanks,
-Michael
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Postby brj » Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:41 am

JNewell wrote:Actually, Sal's post indicates that he believes that the backspacer is serving an important role in preserving the stability and rigidity of the Military. Therefore, removing it apparently weakens the knife. Whether that is going to present a functional or safety problem for your uses is hard to say...
The way I see it, the rigidity of the handle is assured by the huge amount of steel that extends inside the handle when the knife is open - on the pivot end, and by the stepped lanyard pipe - on the back of the knife, and only marginally by the backspacer... The fact that the fluted Ti model has only standoffs may also corroborate.

I cannot recommend that you remove the backspacer on your knife, but I can confirm that in my 2+ years usage I have noticed no differences determined by the lack of the backspacer on my Millies... of course YMMV :)
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