Elmax

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Ankerson
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Postby Ankerson » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:12 pm

Bronco wrote:Impressive. I'm afraid my own hair is still a bit too close to USMC regulation length to allow for the perfecting of such a technique. :)



Agreed. Perhaps we can save it for the next time we run into one another over at the "other" place. :)
I have a thread in General over there and a Video in the testing forum.

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Postby The Mastiff » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:12 am

I guess I'll have to wait for an upcoming Spyderco offering in Elmax for a better chance to see the true capabilities of this steel. As it stands now, I honestly think I could take the primary bevel on the 0551 all the way up to the saber grind and it still wouldn't make much of a difference in cutting efficiency

Yep. I don't think it would make a lot of sense to buy a knife costing that much then try to turn it into something it was not meant to be. I do what I do only when I have extra time and money. It also helps having XX Coarse diamond plates too. A grinder would be better but I don't have room for it in this place.

BTW Bronco, welcome to Spyderco Forums. It's good to see you posting here.

Joe
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"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"

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Ankerson
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Postby Ankerson » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:53 pm

The Mastiff wrote:Yep. I don't think it would make a lot of sense to buy a knife costing that much then try to turn it into something it was not meant to be. I do what I do only when I have extra time and money. It also helps having XX Coarse diamond plates too. A grinder would be better but I don't have room for it in this place.

BTW Bronco, welcome to Spyderco Forums. It's good to see you posting here.

Joe
The 0551 has a pretty thick grind, I found that out when I cut with one. It's really not the best slicer in the world you could say. One would have to have to have the blade reground to turn it into one.

I also think if Spyderco releases a Military or Para 2 in this steel it would be the ticket, it would be a great slicer.

If Spyderco ever replaced S30V I would highly recommend ELMAX as the steel to replace it with.

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Postby Donut » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:26 pm

From what I read about Elmax, isn't it just laminated white carbon steel?
-Brian
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Postby Ankerson » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:44 pm

Donut wrote:From what I read about Elmax, isn't it just laminated white carbon steel?
Ah no......

http://www.bucorp.com/knives.htm

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Postby The Mastiff » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:52 pm

If Spyderco ever replaced S30V I would highly recommend ELMAX as the steel to replace it with.
That, or 390PM if it didn't kill Sal's grinders and cause a revolt on the line. S35VN could fit the bill too, though I admit I haven't really spent the hours getting to know it that I have Elmax.

One thing I found out was that Elmax was very versatile. It does everything pretty well. High polish. Regular working grinds. Thick strong blades, and very thin , low angle stuff. It really is a clean steel, reminding me of BG42 in that regard, perhaps cleaner. It made some of the nicest, straightest edges I've seen.

I don't think I'd retire S30V for it but if needed it could step in for S30V and not miss a beat. It does everything pretty well.

I do consider 390pm more agressive and those that like those biting edges would probably like it. I could live happily with either just like I have with VG10 and S30V.

Times are really very good for us knife knuts and steel junkies. We are very fortunate. :)
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800


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Postby Ankerson » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:34 pm

The Mastiff wrote:That, or 390PM if it didn't kill Sal's grinders and cause a revolt on the line. S35VN could fit the bill too, though I admit I haven't really spent the hours getting to know it that I have Elmax.

One thing I found out was that Elmax was very versatile. It does everything pretty well. High polish. Regular working grinds. Thick strong blades, and very thin , low angle stuff. It really is a clean steel, reminding me of BG42 in that regard, perhaps cleaner. It made some of the nicest, straightest edges I've seen.

I don't think I'd retire S30V for it but if needed it could step in for S30V and not miss a beat. It does everything pretty well.

I do consider 390pm more aggressive and those that like those biting edges would probably like it. I could live happily with either just like I have with VG10 and S30V.

Times are really very good for us knife knuts and steel junkies. We are very fortunate. :)
M390 is a more aggressive cutter, but it's also more expensive. :)

ELMAX is tougher and set to be more mainstream for folders and FB.

Both are excellent steels.

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Postby The Mastiff » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:46 pm

Jim, Is it as good as I think it would be in a high performance custom? Everything is pointing to it having the right makeup for turbocharging it a little. Custom only stuff of course.

Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800


"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"

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Postby Donut » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:00 pm

At first I didn't see anything different than XHP, then I went through the rest and it isn't. It looks very similar to Carpenter's 204P. Maybe the Carpenter steel will make it worth giving a shot.
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Postby Ankerson » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:20 pm

The Mastiff wrote:Jim, Is it as good as I think it would be in a high performance custom? Everything is pointing to it having the right makeup for turbocharging it a little. Custom only stuff of course.

Joe

It's a good steel, I have it in my Custom Demko and tested it in a Phil Wilson Custom, it does very well indeed.

You lose some edge retention to M390, but the toughness makes up for it.

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Postby Ankerson » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:20 pm

Donut wrote:At first I didn't see anything different than XHP, then I went through the rest and it isn't. It looks very similar to Carpenter's 204P. Maybe the Carpenter steel will make it worth giving a shot.
Huh... :confused:

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Postby Bronco » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:51 am

The Mastiff wrote:
BTW Bronco, welcome to Spyderco Forums. It's good to see you posting here.

Joe
Thanks for the kind welcome, Joe. :)

Though it would probably be fair to say that earlier in my career as a knife nut I was more partial to BM and MT designs, Sal has completely changed my outlook these last couple years. The original Manix started the process and by the time I got my grubby paws on the CF ZDP Stretch II it was all over.

Now I'm trying my best to be patient waiting for the Bento Box Shop's next shipment of Tan M4 Manix IIs to ship. :)

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Postby Ankerson » Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:10 pm

Here is a closeup of the ELMAX blade after making 100 slicing cuts through 5/8" manila rope and cutting a bunch of cardboard. It was still very sharp after all the cutting, sharp enough to cut paper easy.

Image

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Postby defenestrate » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:59 pm

nice. almost no edge deformation. (I can see just a bit but you'd have to have higher magnification to easily judge it)
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Postby Ankerson » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:05 pm

defenestrate wrote:nice. almost no edge deformation. (I can see just a bit but you'd have to have higher magnification to easily judge it)
That's the working edge starting to form, it's takes longer on ELMAX to form and the edge was polished before testing.

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Postby type00rev » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:47 pm

Ankerson wrote:Here is a closeup of the ELMAX blade after making 100 slicing cuts through 5/8" manila rope and cutting a bunch of cardboard. It was still very sharp after all the cutting, sharp enough to cut paper easy.

Image
Jim,

Very nice work, sir!! After seeing the edge on your Elmax Demko, I may just have to send you my ZT 0551 for some loving on your EdgePro and strop. I would pay you, of course. Feel free to PM me if you're up for it.

-Michael
:spyder:Harpy SS| :spyder:S90VCF Millie| :spyder:C36GPBK Millie| :spyder:C51GPFG Rookie| :spyder:C122GP Tenacious| :spyder:MT02 CPM-M4 x2| :spyder:MT03 CPM-S90V| :spyder:C81FG Para| :spyder:C81GSBK Para| :spyder:C95GPFG Manix #044V

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Postby spydusse » Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:26 pm

apdb90 wrote:I have to be honest....Elmax really didn't impress me at first. I have a ZT/Hinderer 0551. Like just about every decent knife, it came "shaving sharp", but it's just not YOUR knife until you put YOUR edge on it.

I also recently picked up a Foliage Manix 2 CTS-XHP. The "stainless D2" reputation of the steel intrigued me. I'm a huge fan of D2, and have most of my customs made in D2.

Tonight, was time to say goodbye to the factory edges, and put "my" edges on them. The CTS-XHP reprofiled very nicely (I sharpen my folders in this size range @ 20/side) it polished up very nicely, and very easily produced a shaving sharp edge, and I'm talking a straight razor shaving sharp edge.

The Elmax seems a bit more difficult to polish, and seemed a bit more difficult to cut/reprofile. Not huge amounts, but noticeable. While it resulted in a shaving sharp blade, it didn't produce the "hairs jump off your arm when they see the blade coming" edge the CTS-XHP did.

You know how there is always that other shoe waiting to drop? This is about the time it dropped. As I'm wiping honing oil off the 0551/Elmax, it cut through the rag (which I always have bunched up VERY thick just in case for this very reason), light it was a frickin light saber. The CTS-XHP wouldn't cut the same rag, without a concerted effort to do so. Shaves like no ones business. Does the "paper test" like a razor blade. But it just doesn't have the "oh my GOD" cutting ability the Elmax, or even D2 has...IMHO.

The Manix 2 is still my primary carry knife. I carry a full sized 1911 (after carrying a sidearm for almost 25 years total, it's hard not to), and the 0551 tends to pinch my leg pretty bad between the holster and knife, plus it feels like it's 10 times as heavy and thick as the Manix 2. It's essentially a sharpened pry bar, but with the Elmax blade, it's a sharpened pry bar that out cuts my Manix 2 by a rather large margin.

If Spyderco would offer a Para, Millie, or Manix in Elmax, I'd have yet another new carry knife.
That's scary ,its like you are in my mind .scary just scary .up untill paragraph five. I would say my xhp manix holds a edge a bit longer then my 055. I would put elmax's edge retention somewhere between xhp and s30

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Postby Ankerson » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:18 pm

type00rev wrote:Jim,

Very nice work, sir!! After seeing the edge on your Elmax Demko, I may just have to send you my ZT 0551 for some loving on your EdgePro and strop. I would pay you, of course. Feel free to PM me if you're up for it.

-Michael
Thanks. :)

I stopped doing sharpening for people awhile back for various reasons.


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