Anyone here with gayle Bradley with date code JJ?

MIL-DOT · #101

JNewell wrote: Actually, neither date necessarily indicates the date of the knife itself, only the dates of the blade and the box. :)

I would think this is sufficient information for the purposes of this discussion,as it's only the blade quality and performance that is in question,right?

Blerv · #102

MIL-DOT wrote:I would think this is sufficient information for the purposes of this discussion,as it's only the blade quality and performance that is in question,right?

Yea but we still haven't verified anything yet besides that people have seen inconsistent results depending on sharpening and particular knives.

Some engines are stronger than others out of the crate but you can't draw a line of production dates unless the maker admits to making a certain an repeatable change (eg: Sal saying, "yea we upped the Ht in Jan 2011 because we found lower ht was performing poorly").

bill64 · #103

Does this mean Blerv,that my KJ is a lesser performer?When and for what reason Sal said that?
Also didn't Spyderco reply ,that the 2010 model was found 63-64?
Anyway, I think that we deserve an official reply...

Brock O Lee · #104

Hi Guys,

Some positive news...

I did a proper DIY edge retention test today.

I used 3 knives:
- Para Military 2 CTS-20CP
- Para Military 2 M390
- Gayle Bradley CPM-M4 (date code Gk on box)

For each, I sliced 1 meter, 12mm diameter manila rope, and tested sharpness by slicing phone book paper.

It seems like I was smoking my socks. :o There is nothing wrong with my Gayle Bradley. :)

I have posted the test on a seperate thread:
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthre ... post746534

Conclusion:
The GB in M4 did pretty well in this test, and exceeded my expectations (seeing that we got off on the wrong foot with cardboard). FOR THIS TEST, with a 38 deg micro bevel, it performs in the same league as my PM2 20CP (with 32 deg micro bevel) and my PM2 M390 (with 30-32 deg factory edge). I'm satisfied that there is no problem with the knife. :)

Sorry if I send everyone on a wild goose chase with some earlier comments. That was my first impression with my GB and M4, with a honed factory edge, cutting a cardboard box... I still don't know why I initially saw big rolls on the factory edge after cutting that cardboard. Maybe it was a burr, maybe it was some HECTIC cardboard, I dunno... :confused:

That being said, I cannot speak for the other guys who reported bad performance with M4 in this thread.

If you think you have a problem, I encourage you to do your own test. Manila rope is not expensive, and you will probably learn something new (like I did). :)

JNewell · #105

Blerv wrote:Yea but we still haven't verified anything yet besides that people have seen inconsistent results depending on sharpening and particular knives.

Some engines are stronger than others out of the crate but you can't draw a line of production dates unless the maker admits to making a certain an repeatable change (eg: Sal saying, "yea we upped the Ht in Jan 2011 because we found lower ht was performing poorly").

Yep to all, with the additional qualification that we don't know much about production schedules. Basically, this is all based on inference at this point.

Blerv · #106

bill64 wrote:Does this mean Blerv,that my KJ is a lesser performer?When and for what reason Sal said that?
Also didn't Spyderco reply ,that the 2010 model was found 63-64?
Anyway, I think that we deserve an official reply...

Sorry Bill if I phrased that poorly.

Sal has not responded regarding a change in HT that I know of. Certainly not regarding production dates. I wish he would though.

hunterseeker5 · #107

So hang on, let me get this straight. One person who had the problem sent their knife in and Spyderco could find no problem and one person who had this problem actually cried wolf, so we're left with only one user who has an unchallenged claim to an issue?

I guess I'm not even sure what to think now. I don't want to go running around pointing fingers at anyone, telling anyone they imagined it, or anything else but...... *sigh* in all seriousness trade places with me and tell me what you'd think if our places were changed? Maybe you cut some bad cardboard, maybe there was an isolated HT issue, I don't know but we now have two confirmed reports of users claiming issues which didn't exist and one unsubstantiated claim. I could understand if someone in QC was tearing their hair out now.

jheredia88 · #108

Yeah, before I say anything conclusive I'll test my knife out like brock-o-lee did, see if it was just an out of the box problem or something else like hard cardboard. It did roll rather easily but its nothing definite. I'll try getting some more cardboard or maybe some rope and see how it goes. I also need to learn how to do proper bevels, I have such a hard time making the sides even, although they cut very well. Still new to sharpening lol. Crimson's issue might not be mine hopefully, and I'll have a nice preforming knife :D

Blerv · #109

I honestly would rather have sad facts than blindly believe Spyderco is never wrong with their products (as if a slightly low HT is "wrong" without knowing intent).

Fact is we have had quite a few opinions and no official response from the maker. No macro pics or resolutions (good or bad) as the knives were returned (to a dealer). No pics of any "rolling" either so I hope that's not just a term getting thrown around when a knife doesnt have a hair splitting edge.

This thread has over 4k views and is destined to be bumped a year from now. I hope there is a valid problem out there otherwise it's one crazy placebo effect.

CrimsonTideShooter · #110

Lol it's funny how things on the Internet just explode without much at all really going on.

I hope no one here thinks I'm instigating this. I had a problem with a couple GBs that I got rid of a long time ago. Mine have been awesome since, so I have no dog in this fight.

The video of my edge retention test is still on YouTube, plain as day. You can see quite clearly how the knife performed, if anyone is interested. Keep in mind that I do NOT still own that knife. :)

Brock O Lee · #111

I think this is where the rumours about a change in HT started:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... ht=bradley

alucardje · #112

Hello Guys;

I'm kinda new to this forum, but I've been into knives for 10 years about, I've made high-end swords and performance hunting / working knives.

As for the Gayle Bradley, I obtained one excactly for the CPM-M4, to see what this steel does, how it works, if it really is that good. I found that my factory edge (I believe it's also JJ - can the owner of the box of my gayle bradley cofirm this please ?) dulled rather quickly - faster then it should. So I decided to do some un-orthodox things to the knife. I ran the edge with a weight attached to the spine over a glass plate. I was expecting to roll the entire edge if it would have been too soft, or scratch the glass all over, and damaging the edge. Funny result, it was inbetween. The tip is noticeably softer; and rolls easy. about 1/3 of the edge scratched the glass and 2/3 rolled and skid over the glass. It wasn't even either; the tip and the closest part to the handle were the softest, while the straight section was the hardest.

I figured that this was strange; and I decided to test a working theory. decarburization.

So I resharpened the knife with a 320 grit belt - I usualy make my cutting edges like this after hardening and finishing a blade -; making sure I raised a bur on both sides; because I want to remove the top layer of steel. (52100, 5160 and L6 are vulnerable to this, especially if they got too hot during HT'ing). Then I finished the edge with a trizact A40, then A6 belt, and knocked off the bur with the polishing wheel.

Rematch to the glass plate. Lo and behold; the entire edge minus the last 3 mm of the tip scratch the glass.

My 2 cents; loss of carbon during fabrication; but only slightly. Result; the more you sharpen this knife, the better it's edge holding will become.

I would like for someone who has this problem to do the same thing. Remove the upper steel layer of the edge (rough resharpening will do), and see if you find harder steel ...

greetz.

Blerv · #113

I don't think your intention is malicious Crimson.

Grief sometimes comes with the territory (making threads and doing vids). The title obviously indicates there might be some marked boxes better than others. The GB is a popular knife and the forum averages 130 contingent viewers.

If you want to continue doing tests and posting results it might be wise to post more details and work with the manufacturer quickly if poor examples are found. I think you would notice a huge decrease in griefers.

Otherwise why even tape yourself and post it online? :confused:

dbcad · #114

Welcome alucardje, and appreciate your contribution :) Enjoy the forum :)

Yiur input is meaningful as I've just taken the stock edge off of my Bradley :)

dbcad · #115

Welcome alucardje, and appreciate your contribution :) Enjoy the forum :)

Your input is meaningful as I've just taken the stock edge off of my Bradley :)

JNewell · #116

Blerv wrote:I honestly would rather have sad facts than blindly believe Spyderco is never wrong with their products (as if a slightly low HT is "wrong" without knowing intent).

Sal would be the first to agree with that... :spyder:

Brock O Lee · #117

alucardje wrote:Hello Guys;

I'm kinda new to this forum, but I've been into knives for 10 years about, I've made high-end swords and performance hunting / working knives.

As for the Gayle Bradley, I obtained one excactly for the CPM-M4, to see what this steel does, how it works, if it really is that good. I found that my factory edge (I believe it's also JJ - can the owner of the box of my gayle bradley cofirm this please ?) dulled rather quickly - faster then it should. So I decided to do some un-orthodox things to the knife. I ran the edge with a weight attached to the spine over a glass plate. I was expecting to roll the entire edge if it would have been too soft, or scratch the glass all over, and damaging the edge. Funny result, it was inbetween. The tip is noticeably softer; and rolls easy. about 1/3 of the edge scratched the glass and 2/3 rolled and skid over the glass. It wasn't even either; the tip and the closest part to the handle were the softest, while the straight section was the hardest.

I figured that this was strange; and I decided to test a working theory. decarburization.

So I resharpened the knife with a 320 grit belt - I usualy make my cutting edges like this after hardening and finishing a blade -; making sure I raised a bur on both sides; because I want to remove the top layer of steel. (52100, 5160 and L6 are vulnerable to this, especially if they got too hot during HT'ing). Then I finished the edge with a trizact A40, then A6 belt, and knocked off the bur with the polishing wheel.

Rematch to the glass plate. Lo and behold; the entire edge minus the last 3 mm of the tip scratch the glass.

My 2 cents; loss of carbon during fabrication; but only slightly. Result; the more you sharpen this knife, the better it's edge holding will become.

I would like for someone who has this problem to do the same thing. Remove the upper steel layer of the edge (rough resharpening will do), and see if you find harder steel ...

greetz.

Hi Alucardje,

What you describe is pretty much what I experienced with the factory edge. I saw a big flat spot on the edge after push-cutting (hard) one section of double 2-ply cardboard. I was using the part of the edge closest to the handle.

At the time, I remembered I have read about some people who complained that S30V was prone to chipping when it was first introduced into the market. IIRC, this was on the factory edges, but after a few sharpenings, the chipping problem seemed to be much reduced.

That's why I decided to re-profile, to remove a bit of steel near the edge, in the hope that the same was true for M4. Subsequent performance was much better. I didn't use the knife a lot since then, and haven't thought about it much until this thread popped up recently. But my rope cutting test over the weekend showed none of this bad performance.

I'm not an expert, but I think you might have a point here... Hopefully someone else with more knowledge on the subject can confirm your theory.

Slash · #118

dbcad wrote:Welcome alucardje, and appreciate your contribution :) Enjoy the forum :)

Your input is meaningful as I've just taken the stock edge off of my Bradley :)

that's what I suggested to cts somewhere on this forum or his yt vid. He just dismissed my suggestion like one of those stubborn kids that think they know everything. Saying he sharpened the blade already.

Maybe he'll learn from his mistakes?

dbcad · #119

Take your time and figure out if anything is really wrong first. It is interesting how issues get blown out of proportion very easily.

alucardje's post was intriguing, Don't rush to judgrment on any front until the evidence is there to support it :)

JNewell · #120

Brock O Lee wrote:I think this is where the rumours about a change in HT started:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... ht=bradley

There are also subsequent posts from Sal and Mr. Bradley confirming the initial high RC range. I don't recall off the top of my head whether there were subsequent knives tested that came back with a lower RC range. I'd search but I had rotator cuff surgery on Friday and between the pain and the narcotics I'm not feeling up to it right at the moment! :eek:

:spyder:

Sal Glesser wrote:Our plan was about 62/63. Gayle Tested one and he said it was closer to 65. CPM-M4 can take the higer hardness if that's so. We'll be doing a sample testing next week.

sal