in house design lacking in variety

[chuck_roxas45]

I'm ok with most of Spyderco's designs.

[ChrisR]

Actually I think Spyderco has got the balance about right ... they have a huge range of styles across the product range and inject variety by inviting collaborations with other knife makers. But in-house they have their own style, just as the collaborators have their own distinctive 'look' too. Spyderco's leaf-blades and choils are almost as distinctive as the Spydie hole itself and that style has a huge following and people love them :)

[captnvegtble]

Para 2, Military, Native, Sage, Caly 3/3.5, Stretch 2, UKPKs, Urban, Kiwis, Chokwe, Manix 2...seems like a lot of variety to me, and that's just naming a few.

I think part of the issue is that all those knives you listed have choils except for the Chokwe... they have that choil bump right where I want to put my index finger (which feels like the most natural grip for me).

[The Deacon]

I think part of the issue is that all those knives you listed have choils except for the Chokwe... they have that choil bump right where I want to put my index finger (which feels like the most natural grip for me).

Then the Delica, Endura, Police, Tenacious, Persistance, Resiliance, Ambitious, Centofante 3, or one of the Lums might be better choices for you. If you want neither a conventional blade shape or 50/50 choil, there are the Tasman Salt, Spyderhawk, Civilian, Assist, Leafstorm, P'kal, and the Zulu to choose from. Nothing exactly to your taste, I feel your pain. I'm still waiting for the double bolstered, 2mm thick Damsteel bladed, Stretch. :p

[dbcad]

Agreed with previous replies. Sal and Spyderco have their their own style, but are not afraid to go out on a limb. I'm thinking about hawbill shaped blades, interesting recurves on the Cricket, SPOT, Matriarch, Civilian etc. Not all appeal to me, but they are there for others to appreciate. Caspian Salt and Swick are definitely Perrin inspired. From where I sit now I appreciate the diversity and influences that Spyderco incorporates into it's in house line up. The Balance is a trip unto itself.

I've had some of the same thoughts as the OP, but being relatively new to scratching my knife itch helps me recognize that my own tastes and preferences are evolving. Spyderco alternatives are there :D Call me a nut, but Spyderco knives are the only ones I care to buy new. I know they will have quality materials and workmanship. All that I choose to retain have utility for tasks that I use them for.

It's ok to notice the distinctive style Spyderco also brings to the table.

Sorry for going on, but I am still superexcited about the Large Lum :o

[unit]

If it has a spider on it, it is a Spyderco design. I really doubt any knife does not bear some design owing to factors outside the house.

Sal is always reinforcing the idea that the customer is part of the ongoing design improvement.

[2cha]

I find the observation utterly foreign to my experience--1st, drawing a distinction between in-house designs and collaborations is artificial in the extreme--the knives are COLLABORATIONS, by definition, the product of both in house and (clear throat) out house persons. Spyderco was/is a pioneer in the field of collaborations and continues to inject new blood with a near dizzying array of wonderfully executed products. 2nd, who does variety better with a product of similar quality? I've looked around and I can't think of any company that comes remotely close. Look at the Shot Show videos from the "other" companies,... 3rd, I remember poking fun at people who complained of the Leafstorm's lack of choil--well, now I understand. :)

[dialex]

I think I understand what you mean. Spyderco has many designs, for almost every taste. And still, there is always room for more to be wanted.
For my part, there are certain models I absolutely love, yet I'd still change a thing or two... Not because there would be anything wrong with them, but just because of my twisted mind and picky nature :o
Fortunately Sal is crazy enough himself to spoil us, like making lefty (and undented) models for Paul or letting me create my own knife from scratch :D

[captnvegtble]

Then the Delica, Endura, Police, Tenacious, Persistance, Resiliance, Ambitious, Centofante 3, or one of the Lums might be better choices for you. If you want neither a conventional blade shape or 50/50 choil, there are the Tasman Salt, Spyderhawk, Civilian, Assist, Leafstorm, P'kal, and the Zulu to choose from. Nothing exactly to your taste, I feel your pain. I'm still waiting for the double bolstered, 2mm thick Damsteel bladed, Stretch. :p

I completely agree, which is why I gravitate towards those knives you mentioned. I'm not complaining at all, I'm just responding to a post and playing devils advocate for the sake of discussion.

[dbcad]

Agreed again, they're all Spyderco :)

[jackknifeh]

Some of that seems like the Spyderco theory of design. Form often follows function. That makes perfect sense for the company that wants to be the knife in your pocket, more so than the knife in your safe. The classic Spydie designs may fit into that line of thinking. There are several blade shapes that are now classically Spyderco. I don't think that's a bad thing.

That said, I still think Spyderco has been very willing to take risks on odd shaped blades. Look at most of the ethnic series. Few other production companies would take on designs like the Yojimbo, Zulu, Balance, Chokwe, Barong, Captain, Dodo, etc... Many of them are sleepers until being discontinued and then everyone realizes they were amazing, but odd designs.

I like the "form follows function" theory. I believe even the most beautiful or fancy knife should be a good user for some type of cutting tasks. The "sleepers" also is interesting. It's like we don't know what we have until it's gone. Very observant points araneae.

BTW, judging by your avatar I'd say scientists don't even minor is english in college. :D

[VashHash]

The para2 s an in house design with no leaf shaped blade or 50/50 choil and for me the new ergos makes it so I can grip the knice comfortably without the choil.

[Beanie-Bean]

OK, here's my take:

I'm thankful that Spyderco is collaborating with others, and also creating some new designs in-house. Just gives me an excuse to keep checking the forums and the vendors to see what else I can spend money on.

Can you imagine if you've bought everything under the sun already, and nothing "new" came out?

Customer for life here...just waiting for some of the sprints and regular production models to roll out.

Example--Sal mentioned something about the new Stop Lock on what could be the Military 2 knife. I don't have a Millie yet (I've got the Para 2) so should I just wait for this new design to surface and be released before I pull the trigger?

Well, I think you all know the answer to that. I've been reading a lot about that particular model, and have my fill of the nutnfancy youtube vids, so it's really down to which dealer has the best price on the scale/blade color scheme I'm looking to go with...

[dj moonbat]

You think the leaf shape, and the 50/50 choil, represent a design rut? When was the last time Spyderco released a knife with no hole in the blade? ****, they put holes in the fixed blades!

[Pete2s]

I like my knives to have a choil, but the choil needs to be an option--some Spyderco knives feel like they were designed to only be used with the choil.

[fast.ed]

One thing for certain, you can't satisfy everyone. Not only do people have different taste, but their taste evolve as they get older. As I have matured, so has my taste in knives, I prefere smaller quality knives now. My perfect knive would look something like this:

Size and shape... A WH BO9.
Handle/scale...Kopa white ervina with silver bolsters.
Steel...VG10 or 154cm.
A thunb stud.
:D

[psychophipps]

I am another person firmly in the "no finger choil" camp. I don't like them on fixed blades or folders as I think that they just take up valuable blade real estate. I keep hearing on videos how it's about "choking up for control" but I counter that with "it's a pocket knife, not a precision carving tool". As a former yacht woodworker I say that if you need to get all buck wild and precise in your cutting, you shouldn't be using a half-baked tool like a pocket knife in the first place.

[Handwrecker]

I am another person firmly in the "no finger choil" camp. I don't like them on fixed blades or folders as I think that they just take up valuable blade real estate. I keep hearing on videos how it's about "choking up for control" but I counter that with "it's a pocket knife, not a precision carving tool". As a former yacht woodworker I say that if you need to get all buck wild and precise in your cutting, you shouldn't be using a half-baked tool like a pocket knife in the first place.

Because carrying yacht-quality woodworking tools into the woods is an everyday occurrence :confused: I agree with using the right tool for the job, but the beauty of a knife is that it can hold many jobs. I simply like choking up for cleaning fish and game or even something as minor as opening mail.

Everybody has a preference, but how do you feel about the Gayle Bradley choil which takes away no cutting edge? The Military is in the same boat. Not all of them have to be like the Superleaf.

[The Mentaculous]

I am another person firmly in the "no finger choil" camp. I don't like them on fixed blades or folders as I think that they just take up valuable blade real estate. I keep hearing on videos how it's about "choking up for control" but I counter that with "it's a pocket knife, not a precision carving tool". As a former yacht woodworker I say that if you need to get all buck wild and precise in your cutting, you shouldn't be using a half-baked tool like a pocket knife in the first place.

To each his own...a 50/50 choil is amazing at providing a 4 finger grip in a pocket knife that otherwise would be unlikely to have one...look at the Kiwi, Dragonfly, Kopa etc...they all afford a very comfortable 4 finger grip in a very small package, not something I see in a lot of other sub 3 inch folders.

Plus, for a design like the Caly 3 or UKPK, I think the ergonomics are fantistic for what it is--a compact utility knife. The grip provided is, IMO, one of the most natural grips possible on a knife. As spyderco says, it was designed to feel like an extension of the human hand, and I think they accomplish this maybe better than any other knife, even ones with fantastic non-choil grips like the Stretch 2, Military, Para 2 and Manix 2.

For me, the choil grip on something like the UKPK or Caly 3 is perfect for a knife that size (and as I mentioned, necessary for even small knives) and I don't think a knife like that would be at all the same without it--in fact, I think it can also afford MORE cutting edge--look at the Delica--No choil, but a short blade compared to the handle, because they need to make the handle longer to fit the whole hand. With a 50/50 choil, the handle doesn't need to be as long because the grip extends slightly onto the blade. It doesn't take up that much space compared to the payoff IMO.

Like I said, to each his own...you don't like choil grips, I generally don't like knives WITHOUT index finger or 50/50 choils. I think much of the Spyderco community shares my sentiment to some degree or another. Of course, I'm not going to turn down an awesome design just because of a lack of choil.

IMO, Spydercos use of 50/50 choils is spot on, as is their level of variety vs. sticking with what works. That's one great thing about this company, they listen to their customers, and make something for everyone.

PS-I'm not sure what you mean by calling pocket knives "half baked"...I think Spyderco produces many great examples of how a pocket knife can be an extremely specialized, refined cutting tool that is not necessarily a compromise compared to other tools.

Edit:most of the knives I use the choil on, I don't consider it "choking up" (ie the ones I've mentioned, the Caly 3, UKPK, Kiwi, D'Fly etc), but a 50/50 choil does sometime come in handy on a larger folder like the military.

One nice bonus is that if the lock fails, you don't have all your fingers sliced off. People don't often mention this (outside slip-its), but I personally like to have a choil or at least an exposed ricasso that can act as a stop-point if the blade accidentally closes.

And that is my new novel, Why I Like Fifty-Fifty Choils by Jon F

[Michael Janich]

As a member (of sorts) of the in-house design team, I'd like to offer a few thoughts.

First of all, one of the unique things about Spyderco is that we are constantly developing and releasing new products. In some ways, that makes the traditional annual catalog a bit deceiving, because it does not always reflect ongoing design trends or the evolving "full-scope" of our product offering.

Some of the knives currently "in the works" -- like the Vallotton, the Szabo folder, the Tuff, and my Yojimbo 2 design -- are very different from the Caly/Native leaf-blade 50/50 choil theme.

When it comes to the choil issue, I've always looked at it as both a means of changing leverage and control by choking up AND a uniquely functional way of allowing smaller knives to fit larger hands. In a previous life, I worked for a company that produced a beautiful hawkbill knife that was visually striking, yet had an overly aggressive pinky hook and lousy ergonomics. When you gripped it, there just wasn't enough room for the pinky to fit and your hand was crowded toward the edge.

I convinced them to remove the pinky hook and add a finger choil to the ricasso. The result was a knife with some of the best ergonomics of the entire line and one that found favor with folks with hands of all sizes.

Finally, you might want to remember that "new" is always a matter of perspective. To someone who's never seen our line before, it's ALL new--and that person will see a broad scope of designs with different themes, including the classic designs devoid of 50/50 choils. To someone who knows our line, but hasn't bought much, he or she is probably still defining personal likes and dislikes. Someone who started with the classics and decides to try a knife with a choil may love it because it fits his or her needs and style of knife use.

Folks who've been around a while and own a number of knives have defined their preferences. In most cases, they can both articulate them and back them up based on actual use. In those cases, let us know what you what and why it works better for you. If your opinion makes sense logically and from a business standpoint, we'll do our best to give you more of what you want. That's a far more helpful approach than telling us what you don't want.

Thank you all for your feedback and insights.

Stay safe,

Mike