Lock Rating!

[casey1]

This is not about lock strength. This is about blade-play. Please rate the following locks in order from best to worst

BBL
Liner
Lock-back
Compression
Slip-Joint

[Javascript]

The locks are about keeping the blade open. There are other factors determining blade-play.

[The Mentaculous]

What Java said--with a properly tightened pivot, all should be perfectly solid in the open position.

[Tsujigiri]

I agree, the lock and blade play are independent. However, with axis-lock variants (like the Ball Bearing Lock), you need to loosen the pivot significantly to get the blade to swing well, so blade play becomes an issue.

[Javascript]

I agree, the lock and blade play are independent. However, with axis-lock variants (like the Ball Bearing Lock), you need to loosen the pivot significantly to get the blade to swing well, so blade play becomes an issue.

I can't completely agree with this statment. The pivot tightness and the resultant friction on the blade tang from compressing the scales/liner is a far greater influence than the little friction due to the lock riding the tang as it rotates.
In other words, the lock is the least likely thing to be holding the blade back from an easy opening.

[Tsujigiri]

I can't completely agree with this statment. The pivot tightness and the resultant friction on the blade tang from compressing the scales/liner is a far greater influence than the little friction due to the lock riding the tang as it rotates.
In other words, the lock is the least likely thing to be holding the blade back from an easy opening.

I mean to say that with, say, a lockback, the pivot doesn't need to be so loose that the blade will swing freely. But because with a Ball Bearing Lock a good part of the appeal is that you can quickly swing the blade shut, I like to loosen the pivot enough that blade play becomes an issue. It's not that the Ball Bearing lock hinders the blade action, it's just that I expect smoother blade action than I normally would.

[THG]

Back locks seem to have a little bit of vertical play. I think I also remember people saying the same for most compression locks. Every other lock you mentioned should be free of vertical play.

As for horizontal play, that's more a function of whether your pivot is loose.

[araneae]

I don't see the two being absolutely correlated.

[Javascript]

Back locks seem to have a little bit of vertical play.

Perhaps the well-used ones, but my two Delicas, two Natives, and Caly3CF all exhibit no vertical play. Perhaps others will report differently.

This is not about lock strength. This is about blade-play. Please rate the following locks in order from best to worst

BBL
Liner
Lock-back
Compression
Slip-Joint

casey1, perhaps you could restate the question so we can try to give you a meaningful answer.

[dsmegst]

When properly fitted, any lock that braces the blade open against a fixed stop will have no vertical play. Frame locks, liner locks, BBL, CBBL, and compression locks are examples. There should be zero movement. Also, they will not develop play with wear because the bracing mechanism will move to take up any slack.

Back locks, in my experience will often have a tiny bit of "slack." I hesitate to call it "movement" because it's barely perceptible. It's more a feeling than something observable.

If I put the handle of my Salt 1 in a vise and push the tip of the blade, I can get it to shift an observable amount. It's certainly less than a millimeter, maybe about 1/4 mm. For reference, the thickness of the hour glass pocket clip is 1mm.

A lock back with steel liners, Delica and Endura in this case, have no observable movement. I can detect some shifting through the handles by feel but the blade tip does not move enough for me to measure it.

And some lock backs are rock solid. My FRN Stretch 2 is as solid as any other lock type.

I just checked a few lock backs I have handy just now.

[feed_the_animals]

This is not about lock strength.

Thank goodness. I can't stand that topic.

[bada61265]

i can flex a certain amount of play out of any lock you have side to side. dare me. lol. its just not physically possible to have a pivot loose enough to allow easy movement and eliminate side play altogether, especially if your determined to see some play, its likely you can wiggle it hard enough to show some play. you didnt mention which ball bearing lock has you worried. if its dragging when you have the pivot tight and by that i mean just tight enough to take out "excess" play then maybe you should try some kind of lubricant on it. unless its pretty dirty i cant see how a ball beaing riding on the tang could cause more friction than any other lock.
ive gone threw the lock and pivot worry when i first got into folders in a more serious way. you get enough knives accumulated and this turns into an adjustment issue thats easy to fix. locktite makes the adjustment semi permanent.

[Blerv]

You can find most of the information with a quick search. There is much on the topic from actual data to opinions.

Sal has said before that they can make any lock as strong as they want. Most will say the Compression Lock or Ball-Bearing (or caged ball bearing) Lock are the strongest. The new Stop-Lock is in development that should be very strong as well. Many people classify lockbacks as better than liner locks but not necessarily "bulletproof" while the Chinook and old Manix were EXTREMELY tough. In fact, the Chinook broke their lock testing machine. :D

More than actual strength other factors have to be considered with one of their knives: where it's going to be built, what the goals are, what manufacturing constraints they have (eg: handle room), etc.

Rather than rate by "best" they rate by classification per inch of blade length.

http://spyderco.com/forums/showpost.php ... stcount=21

Considering the question of "what is the strongest Lock". There is no speculation. We have broken hundreds of locks thousands of times. We have no problem getting our minds wrapped around it. We have also learned that "opinion" is of litttle value.

We record the breaks, the numbers, dates, etc.

I believe Deacon, Unit and others expressed why is not a realistic question. "How high is up"?

While some have mentioned; preferences, reliability, engineering, accidental unclocking, etc. Absolute strength of a lock cannot be determined without scientificly testing of said locks and they must be broken to find their limit.

In our testing, we have learned that we can make any lock as strong as we choose to. Make it bigger, harder, tougher, etc. To say that one style of lock is superior by design would be very difficult to prove, considering we can make any lock as strong as we choose to.

For our design purposes, we classify locks into a number of categories with regards to ultimate strength. This is decided when the knife is designed. Based on that decision, we select materials and sizes.

Light duty = 25 - 50 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.
Medium duty = 50 - 100 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.
Heavy duty = 100-200 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.
Very heavy duty (MBC) = over 200 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.

You seem to suggest that it is difficult to "get your minds around" the question. Perhaps you need to get your mind around the fact that there is no answer to your question.

Is the Axis lock, the way it is made by Benchmade stronger than the Triad lock as made by Cold Steel? No problem.

Is the Walker Linerlock stronger than the Reeve Integral Lock? Foolish question.

What kind of a lock do you want and how strong do you want it to be?

sal

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Have knowledge, will share

[JNewell]

Do you mean vertical play or side-to-side play?

This is not about lock strength. This is about blade-play. Please rate the following locks in order from best to worst

BBL
Liner
Lock-back
Compression
Slip-Joint

[Blerv]

I didn't read that properly! Sorry.

I feel much of "blade play" is based on overall design rather than lock.

A knife with a "very heavy duty" lock has less of a chance of play because everything in general is larger and more robust. Per size I think lockbacks have more side-to-side play than liner/RIL's but again that could be based on the model.

Most blade-play is a perceived problem rather than a structural one. It's similar to how a heavy smooth operating knife feels higher quality than a light one. Often these opinions are based on conjecture. *cough* Youtube reviewers* *cough*

I have an old beater Delica4 that has a ton of blade-play and more vertical than I like. It gives a feeling of weakness when cutting things like cardboard. I highly doubt it's lock strength has been compromised. If any, nothing that I would ever realize (ie: it failing).

[unit]

This is really off the topic at hand, but if you really do not like blade play...or you want to experience a higher level of communication and control throughout the knife, you should look into a fixed blade.

I have tried some seriously expensive locking folders (Spyderco and others) and enjoyed what others mean when they say "locks up like a bank vault"...and was happy until I tried a small fixed blade (Mule)...I have felt NOTHING that gave the sensation you get with a full tang fixed blade.

The Mule is a fantastic starting point

Now back to your regular discussion. ALL folding knives have blade play. Some have tighter tolerances than others, but all must have this tolerance in order to fold...even if you have a bearing in the pivot, there is a tolerance. How perceptible it is to the user is where subjectivity comes into play...and you can discuss that for days.

As stated, mid-locks and lock-backs will generally have some vertical play...but it can be loaded with a spring so that this is only felt under pressure. Others can have bushing pivots that have lateral play that is independent of lock type.

[v8r]

I can't remember any lock backs that I have purchased that didn't have a little vertical play. I have some comp locks that have a slight amount also. To me it is really a non issue most of the time.

[Blerv]

I can't remember any lock backs that I have purchased that didn't have a little vertical play. I have some comp locks that have a slight amount also. To me it is really a non issue most of the time.

I was thinking of this yesterday and pulled out my Adventura. Perhaps it's just my knife but the full stainless design has nil vertical play (that I can notice).

It's a great knife on so many levels. Play or not there are some lock backs that I just can't avoid regardless of preferences.

[casey1]

yes, i meant vertical play. I have a Delica 4 with no current play, but I haven't abused it... and don't plan to. will the Golden made lockbacks have less play overtime? Or any at all? the sad thing is, I want a Golden knife with a 3" blade and no play, and the native5 looks PERFECT, except the possibility of play... a small military looks perfect, except the blade isn't small enough...

[unit]

I was thinking of this yesterday and pulled out my Adventura. Perhaps it's just my knife but the full stainless design has nil vertical play (that I can notice).

It's a great knife on so many levels. Play or not there are some lock backs that I just can't avoid regardless of preferences.

Probably my favorite Spyderco of all time (though I rarely carry it any more, it probably got used and abused more than any other I ever carried). Mine has slight vertical movement that is loaded by the spring and only apparent during hard cutting (involving lots of force behind the handle).