A plea to Mr. Glesser.

[Carlos]

:)
Thank you Sal.
Would this be a Spyderco Europe then? EDC'able in the entire EU I would think.
I think it is amazing that even though you run the entire Spyderco company you still have the time to talk to the users of your product. I will have to visit your factory in Golden some day to leave you a note :)

Niels

Probably "Europa." I think Spyderco has rights to the name from a past model (the C31 Europa) that ended up not going into production AFAIK. Might be the right time to revive the name for a pan-European clipit.

[Legal Beagle]

I did some searching and found the knife that the OP had mentioned before:

I found it here: http://paulberetta.com/pen_knives.htm



I hope that the site's owner will understand us using his photo to further the discussion a bit..

[Grejs76]

Hi.

I am new to this forum, but because of this thread, I just signed up a few minutes ago to suppport Gysse in his quest to bring legal Spyderco knives to Denmark.

I am from Denmark myself, so I would be interested in buying Spyderco knives too, whitout going to jail tho.

The Urban Leaf made legal, by shrinking the hole and ajusting the strength of the backspring, would be the perfect EDC for me. I saw somewhere, that the pivot on an Urban Leaf could be tightend up, so that the Urban no longer could be opend one-handed, even though it has the Spiderhole.

The Danish knifelaw is bad, but we have to fight it with new designs, that fit into the law.

Mikael.

[gyssedk]

Welcome Grejs76, good to see that i am not alone, so far we have three danes in this thread (as far as i know).

The DK penknife is a great and "rare" design, we do not have many knives available too us with good steel and craftsmanship, and i guess thats why we would go to all this trouble getting a legal Spyderco.

While looking at the picture above i cant help to notice the chamfering around the hole, i would think that this chamfering would make it easier to open the knife, but maybe they chose the chamfering to make the hole seem bigger.
I cant help thinking that if you removed the chamfering, it would be worth a try to present it to the proper authorities and have them decide if it OHO or not.

[JontaK]

While looking at the picture above i cant help to notice the chamfering around the hole, i would think that this chamfering would make it easier to open the knife, but maybe they chose the chamfering to make the hole seem bigger.

It might be a good idea to round off the chamfering edge with a grindning, laser or waterjet process, then polish it. That combined with a strong spring would probably make OHO almost impossible.
It would look really nice too, without losing the trademarked Spyderco hole. :spyder:


We Swedes are almost certainly banned from wearing any kind of pointed thing in the public due to to our knifelaw, a carpenter got charged a while ago for carrying a knife. What's next, police raids against restaurants to catch chefs with knife in hand...?

[The Deacon]

Welcome Grejs76, good to see that i am not alone, so far we have three danes in this thread (as far as i know).

The DK penknife is a great and "rare" design, we do not have many knives available too us with good steel and craftsmanship, and i guess thats why we would go to all this trouble getting a legal Spyderco.

While looking at the picture above i cant help to notice the chamfering around the hole, i would think that this chamfering would make it easier to open the knife, but maybe they chose the chamfering to make the hole seem bigger.
I cant help thinking that if you removed the chamfering, it would be worth a try to present it to the proper authorities and have them decide if it OHO or not.

The DK Penknife in the photo above is mine. I can say for a fact that the small, beveled, hole makes it impossible for me to open one handed if I grasp the handle in my hand and attempt to thumb open the blade the way I would with any other Spyderco. On the other hand, even without the hole, if one grasps the blade between thumb and forefinger and snaps ones arm violently enough, the knife will open. But so will almost any single bladed slipjoint where enough of the blade is exposed to allow a good grip.

[Pete1977]

I think that Ted's idea on the first page could preserve the integrity of the trademark and at the same time keep the knife from being opened with one hand. Keep the hole and eliminate the hump. Sink the hole below the handle scales, deeper than the native is, and leave only the top part of it as a nail nick.

[Pete1977]

the centofante I and II seem to have a blade spine that is almost flush with the handle when closed and without the cutout on the handle scale would probably hide the hole completely. Something with a similar humpless blade and a straighter handle might be feasable.

[dbcad]

I'm enjoying the thread :) You Danes seem to have a pretty clear idea of what you need.

I fully understand your desire for build and material quality :D

My thought was originally an Urban because it already has a very strong backspring and even with the 12 or 13 mm hole in my standard model it takes a real effort with the thumb to open one handed. With a smoothed edge on a small hole it would be very difficult if not impossible.

Then again I'm not the designer who most likely has a much larger variety of platforms to choose from.

I do own a little Fox folder which is pretty well built, but has a blade length of only about 35 mm. also the steel in the blade I think is 440B.

Just throwing out options. Putting my self in your shoes I would defininetely prefer a Spyderco platform :)

[peacefuljeffrey]

"The Danish knifelaw is bad, but we have to fight it with new designs, that fit into the law."

Is that really "fighting" the law, or merely scurrying to comply with it?
I give up.

If the answer to draconian and irrational knife laws -- proposed by the very folks who live under them! -- is to come up with a new design every time a new class of knife falls under a ban, then fine. I'm glad I don't live there, that's for sure. If I did, I'd spend as much time writing representatives to try to get the law changed as I spent trying to implore someone to make a knife that pleases the law. As they say, YMMV.

P.S. For the record, I would not blame Sal and Spyderco one whit for capitalizing on a market for knives in Denmark (and Sweden too?!). Spyderco is not responsible for the dismal state of the laws there. The citizens there are.

"First, they came for our switchblades. I said nothing, since I didn't own a switchblade.
Then, they came for our one-handed openers. I grumbled about it but I bought a knife that qualified as legal under that law.
Now, they're coming for every non-locking slipjoint, and I'm not allowed to carry any knife at all." :-(

[gyssedk]

Things are different here in Denmark, the knifelaws, and the ensuing penalties stem from the politicians trying to look as if they act to protect the public, they get tighter and tighter every time someone uses a knife for a criminal purpose as if this deters anyone, but a criminal who is willing to use a knife for an illegal purpose does not care about the small penalty for owning an illegal knife when he holds it against the penalty he faces for using this knife, so the result is that the laws make criminals out of ordinary people who all of a sudden has to face a judge and explain why they had a boxcutter or a multitool in their car, regardless of the fact that they might be on their way to fish, hunt or work, or just forgot to take it out of the car....

Changing these laws are not easy, they are almost impossible since no politician will be the one who legalizes OHO or a similar thing, and why should they even do this in the first place, all our cutting needs are met by a SAK, so why would we need anything else ;-)
I do not know who is to blame, offcourse we chose our own politicians, so by that reason its our own fault, but civil liberties are not really a political issue in Denmark, we never fought for them so we might have forgotten how important they really are, but we have the choice to use the liberties we have left, because if we do not, then no one will notice if the last of them start to go away, and that is why i carry my little legal knife, not because I need it every day, but just because i can. And for the same reason, I would carry a Microtech OTF if it was legal, just because I could.

So this is my main reason for starting this thread, and if Sal Glesser is able and willing to capitalize on the European market, so be it, that is his job, he needs to make money in order to make knives for all of us, in my book he can capitalize all he wants, and i wish he could do it tomorrow!

[JontaK]

gyssedk, well said!
I really hope you have started something good here. Even if I don't like our knifelaws, or they way they're being interpreted, I still think an attempt at a legal knife is a very just cause.
After all, I my self try to be a law abiding citizen.

The Swedish government, as well as yours, are clearly attacking the issue not the cause here. That is often the the wrong way to do it.
Banning ALL knives are not the solution for the rising crime rates and/or rising violent crimes with deadly outcome.
It will ALWAYS be easy to get a hold of a deadly weapon, for example:
If they ban all knives and, against all odds, succeds to get a majority of them off the streets there will still be kitchen knives. A small paring knife is just as easy to hide as a medium sized folder or a small fixed blade, just wrap some cloth around the blade and carry it close to your body, voila!
If the criminals can't even get kitchen knives, there will be screwdrivers, after that steel pipes, boards, rocks...
You get the drift.
If a person really wants to injure another person a knife ban is NOT going to stop that.

I willingly admit that I don't have anything against controlling knife sales and/or rules about a maximum blade length for EDC knives in Sweden. As long as all the laws surrounding the carrying of a knife will be realistic and are NOT to be interpreted differently by every court and almost every police officer out there.
I realize that I can and maybe will be rather heavily criticized on that point here since it is an American forum. Please take that the right way as I'm not trying to offend anyone, it's just my opinion about the rules and regulations over here.
I just think that's the way to go in Sweden, every country or region should probably have it's own laws, rules and regulations that are not controlled by a higher force with less insight such as the EU.

peacefuljeffrey and others who criticize the laws over here must please understand that our countries are extremely different to yours when it comes to most things that touches the weapon subject.
As an example there's almost no gunculture here what so ever, except among the hunters. They in fact are fairly common, but shooting just for the sake of shooting/the fun of it is not common at all.
It's a long and pretty difficult process to get a firearm over here, you'll have to get a hunting license or join a sport shooting club, contact the police, get clearence from them, fill out forms etc. You then have to store your guns in a heavy steel gunlocker.
As I understand it you can't own any weapon at all that's the same as, or even resembles a military item.
Handguns over .22 cal are VERY hard to get, sports shooting guns can be a little bit easier though.
Sure there are loopholes in our legal system as in any other country's but as the gunculture is barely existing, hardly anyone cares.
It's almost the same with knives.
No one really understands the practicality in carrying a knife. If you have a knife on you your a blood thirsty felon who are only looking for trouble and should be tossed in a cell. Ironic in my case as I at 27 years of age is yet to hit or get hit by someone.

I have started reading our knifelaws carefully, this because I will probably try to contact the authorities on a local level about the right to bear a knife and how you can affect those rights as an ordinary person.
I'm not really interested in carrying for protection, even though our crimerates are rising I don't think that way quite yet, instead more for the practicality in having an EDC knife without being afraid of hundreds or thousands of dollars in fines or a jail sentence.
Let's see where this leads me...

That's just my thoughts on the issue. I'll try to drop the politics discussion for a while and think about what knife I'm going to get as a part fishing part general outdoor knife.

Gysse, I hope you can help Sal decide on a knife for our region soon.
I would love a G10 Digital Camo with a short, leaf shaped blade of a decent quality but that's prabably impossible to do because of the round hole issue. I guess that a camo color isn't the most discreet either, but it would sure have been sweet!

It's 5.30 A.M. here now, I'm so tired that I wouldn't be surprised if half this message is written in Swedish when I read it tomorrow. :D
Goodnight folks.

[The Deacon]

"The Danish knifelaw is bad, but we have to fight it with new designs, that fit into the law."

Is that really "fighting" the law, or merely scurrying to comply with it?
I give up.

"First, they came for our switchblades. I said nothing, since I didn't own a switchblade.
Then, they came for our one-handed openers. I grumbled about it but I bought a knife that qualified as legal under that law.
Now, they're coming for every non-locking slipjoint, and I'm not allowed to carry any knife at all." :-(

So, you live in a place where anyone can carry anything they wish? If so, where is this wondrous place?

[ngraudal]

So, you live in a place where anyone can carry anything they wish? If so, where is this wondrous place?

I think that must be Austria, I recall them being very open minded in their knifelaws...

A Spyderco SLIPIT that is legal in Denmark will probably only appeal to those of us who are enthusiasts and want a darn good EDC knife, and to collectors who want the entire SLIPIT collection.

Another obstacle is getting the knives into Denmark, from the US. Danish postal Service are not keen on knives, even though they are allowed in their UPU guidelines. All parcels arriving from the US will be checked in customs, and probably returned...

A box of SLIPITs would need to be sent to a distributor and then sold within Denmark/EU. This Distributor would need to be a decent person that won't try to make a $50 markup on the knives...

Alternatively they should be run as groupbuys via danish NVF and shipped to DK with FedEx.

[The Deacon]

I think that must be Austria, I recall them being very open minded in their knifelaws...

A Spyderco SLIPIT that is legal in Denmark will probably only appeal to those of us who are enthusiasts and want a darn good EDC knife, and to collectors who want the entire SLIPIT collection.

Another obstacle is getting the knives into Denmark, from the US. Danish postal Service are not keen on knives, even though they are allowed in their UPU guidelines. All parcels arriving from the US will be checked in customs, and probably returned...

A box of SLIPITs would need to be sent to a distributor and then sold within Denmark/EU. This Distributor would need to be a decent person that won't try to make a $50 markup on the knives...

Alternatively they should be run as groupbuys via danish NVF and shipped to DK with FedEx.

IIRC, Kniv-Per was one of, and possibly the primary, source for the Spyderco DK Penknife in Europe.

[Grejs76]

"The Danish knifelaw is bad, but we have to fight it with new designs, that fit into the law."

Is that really "fighting" the law, or merely scurrying to comply with it?
I give up.

If the answer to draconian and irrational knife laws -- proposed by the very folks who live under them! -- is to come up with a new design every time a new class of knife falls under a ban, then fine. I'm glad I don't live there, that's for sure. If I did, I'd spend as much time writing representatives to try to get the law changed as I spent trying to implore someone to make a knife that pleases the law. As they say, YMMV.

P.S. For the record, I would not blame Sal and Spyderco one whit for capitalizing on a market for knives in Denmark (and Sweden too?!). Spyderco is not responsible for the dismal state of the laws there. The citizens there are.

"First, they came for our switchblades. I said nothing, since I didn't own a switchblade.
Then, they came for our one-handed openers. I grumbled about it but I bought a knife that qualified as legal under that law.
Now, they're coming for every non-locking slipjoint, and I'm not allowed to carry any knife at all." :-(

If you are happier now after all that negativity, good for you.

There is no way I can influence the knife law here in Denmark. So I'd rather live a life with legal spydeco knives, than live without, just to show my anger. Nobody would notice.

We have to design new knives, that push the law. Most Danes use their knives for legal purposes.

Mikael.

[ngraudal]

If you are happier now after all that negativity, good for you.

There is no way I can influence the knife law here in Denmark. So I'd rather live a life with legal spydeco knives, than live without, just to show my anger. Nobody would notice.

We have to design new knives, that push the law. Most Danes use their knives for legal purposes.

Mikael.

You can not push laws with the design of a new knife, that is complying with the restraints. If you want to push the law you need to remove some of the restraints made by the law.
If you want to fight the law you need to come up with a way to convince our DoJ that they have been wrong for the last 10 years.
I have written to them quite recently, I expect an answer sometime in the next 6 months.

I am happy that I spend more than a month in germany every year, down there I can have my OHO's without risking anything.

After having seen the responses from Sal in this thread I wil have to add a Spyderco to my collection. If it is one I can EDC I would be over the moon, should that not happen I would buy one out of principle and add it to my german collection.

[Grejs76]

Ok!

I return to the pupose of this thread. And that is to support Gysse and Mr. Glesser in producing a bunch of knives, that are legal in the countries whith the worst knife laws. Denmark being one of them.

I would be satisfied with an Urban Leaf as an EDC and a Caly 3 as a hunting knife.

The back lock is legal in Denmark, when the knife is used for "creditable pupose" as it says in the Danish law.

Mikael.

[Murdoc]

I am happy that I spend more than a month in germany every year, down there I can have my OHO's without risking anything.

After April '09 (or '10? Don't remember, don't care), one hand opening plus locking knives are kind of "illegal" here, too. You can have one out of 2, OHO OR locking, but not both in the same knife :) (as long as you don't have a "good reason", of course). Ladybug illegal, Aqua Salt is fine. Go figure.

That said, as long as you don't wave around with it in front of some granny in the bus, chances are you can carry one as long as you want without being caught once. I do carry my Spydies just as I did before, and since I am not going to hit the pedestrian zone of my town at 2 am drunk, singing dirty songs and being aggressive, I think I will get away with it for the rest of my life. If I really want to be 100% legal, I pack my Terzuola.

Most of our policemen are pretty close to reality, so if you behave like a grown-up man (or woman), they never will even check your pockets.
Once, a young friend of mine (18y) was checked and showed the pink (breast cancer) Native to them. The cops chuckled (the color IS somewhat hilarious to NKP) and handed it back without starting any trouble. That was AFTER the change in law. The LAW was made by politicians (well, mostly by ONE stupid fella, Curting is his name I think), but the law is EXECUTED by other people, and they usually try to make some sense out of what the elected people in Berlin concoct... and using their brains for a change.

Well, with one of those mall-ninja knives, he might would have been in trouble.
Moral of the story: friendly colors and shapes DO help when being judged by the executive... :D

Dennis

P.S.: BTT; the new DPK knife model will be perfectly legal over (or down) here, too. Although I remember Sal working on a German Spydie, I still will look closely what knife will emerge from this tread. That said, all SLIPIT's are already anything we need. (For the next week, I'll EDC the just arrived Orange Manix 2. Obvious case of Civil Disobedience.)

[peacefuljeffrey]

I'm not trying to be negative, nor am I in any way even implying that I live in or have found a place where anyone can carry anything they want. (Not even a very good strawman, as strawmen go.) I'm just saying that anyone who hasn't learned that bureaucrats have a penchant for finding ludicrous excuses to ban and confiscate knives has not been paying attention. So if you must, scurry to commission a new design that jumps through all their little hoops, and enjoy it until they somehow
ban it, too. Because unless you change these laws, that's inevitable. History has already shown that. I'm not saying anything new or profound or negative; it's just a fact. A stark, cold, sucky fact.