Baliyo no more.... Score one pen for the TSA.

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Sithus1966
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Postby Sithus1966 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:02 pm

And to think I used to fly with a Dragonfly in my carry on bag.

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oldmandon
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How long?

Postby oldmandon » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:32 pm

Tsujigiri wrote:The TSA thinks they're above the law. I doubt a letter will get it back, sorry to hear that you lost it to those crooks.
How long will it take before the 'people' take back their freedoms and liberties? We are being sucked into the premise that 'in the name of homeland security' we must protect you. BULL S***! If we continue down this road, the gov't will own us! They're well on their way. Remember Germany before WWII when the Nazis 'protected' their citizens. To paraphrase Mr. Heston, "You'll take my 'freedom' when you can pry my cold, dead hands off of it."
So many Spydies, so little time . . .

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Sequimite
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Postby Sequimite » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:04 pm

One problem is that "security" tends to be a one way ratchet. Everyone knows there will be another successful terrorist attack in the US. So the question for politicians is, "Do I want to be the one to scale back some of the more over-the-top security measures knowing that if I'm unlucky enough to do so before a successful attack my political career will be over?"

The system does not reward common sense, it rewards overreaction and hyperbole.

Historically the US tends to go way too far with a particular policy (think prohibition) before the pendulum swings back the other way, so there is some longterm hope.
Our reason is quite satisfied, in 999 cases out of every 1000 of us, if we can find a few arguments that will do to recite in case our credulity is criticized by someone else. Our faith is faith in someone else's faith, and in the greatest matters this is most the case.
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dbcad
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Postby dbcad » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:48 pm

You put that well Sequimite. Agree with your take on it.
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SolidState
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Postby SolidState » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:50 pm

If my baliyo ends up on ebay, it will be really easy to see. I have the only black and blue franken-baliyo out there as far as I know. It has a chinese pen tube and american handles.

I tried to argue it with the guy for about two minutes, showed him the pen and he still said it looked like a weapon.

Oddly, he let my laser pointer, and my pentel twist-erase go. The twist-erase is way more weapon-capable than the baliyo.

I will be ordering two new baliyos to make another chinese-american baliyo.

Honestly, I think it was just one jackass agent. I've had nothing but fun showing the same pen to people in other airports. I even had a guy in Seattle ask if he could try some tricks with it. He did a rollover, and realized that it has a lot less weight than his BM42. I'm gonna keep taking them everywhere I go. One bad apple isn't going to wreck my views of my freedoms.

I'm American, and civil disobedience is how we handle b.s. laws correctly here. I will however bring scissors next time. ;)
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marlinspike
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Postby marlinspike » Sat Jan 01, 2011 4:56 pm

You sould have called him a racist and said he was discriminating against Chinese-Americans lol.

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LDB
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Postby LDB » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:45 pm

Wonder what he'd have thought about the Sharkie by Cold Steel. I'd have probably made a supervisor get in the act but I'm a trouble maker.

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monsterdog
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Postby monsterdog » Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:18 pm

Sorry you lost your pen. I do have the perfect security measure for planes:

Arm each passenger who don't already have a weapon on them with a loaner. See how fast any hijacking is stopped.

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Postby RedRunner » Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:34 pm

I sat next to a couple TSA guys waiting to do a boarding screening at a gate. They were bragging about what they had confiscated and we started chatting. One guy had a pretty good score for the day, a socket/ratchet tool set, some swiss army knives, screwdrivers, scissors for his mother, all kinds of stuff. It was interesting - I know it's not policy, but he was keeping his catch. I'm sure if you have something of interest (i.e. something they would like to have) it will get confiscated if they can reasonably argue it. I would personally just walk out and put it in the car and go back through screening. If it was not my home airport, then I'd hide it somewhere outside and retrieve it the next time I was in town. I believe most if not all airports have a mailing option too, but they are not always easy to find in the airport.

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markg
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Postby markg » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:39 pm

Somethings to consider...

1.) You were carrying a pen, that was made to "simulate" a knife that would be a restricted item. Many a plane has been hijacked with bombs that are fake, or weapons that are not real. Now, I know, any idiot should know the Baliyo is not a knife. I would hope, but the fact that the pen is intended to simulate a butterfly knife, is enough to keep it out of carry on luggage for me.

2.) I have grown to "hate" the whole tactical movement. One of the cardinal rules of improvised weapons, is that you use common items that will be available in non-permissive environments (in terms of weapons).

Case in point, pens. I have been training with pens for years, as a weapon. We used BIC pens. After 9-11, people started rushing to market tactical improvised weapons. Namely flashlights and pens. They market them as weapons, and then they weapon-ize them with pointy ends and such. Do you think the government is staffed with idiots? Do you think no one is looking? Then they alert agents to the weapons, than then even the non-weaponized version become prohibited. Frankly I travel with a flashlight, not to knock a terrorist silly, but to use when the plane is full of smoke and I need to find an exit!!!

Then we have endless YouTube videos of self-proclaimed experts (actually just gear guys) telling how the "AMCE Marauder Tactical Pen" is so impressive, point out all the killer features of the pen... Think no one is watching?

So when you go to get on the plane, guess what the agent is going to think about your rather harmless Bayilo? Frankly it is as far form a practical weapon as a marshmallow. However the stage has been set...

I am not surprised it was taken from you, and frankly we only have ourselves to blame. :(

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Postby marlinspike » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:15 pm

markg wrote:Do you think the government is staffed with idiots?
Yes I do. That's why they think Baliyos are dangerous.

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Postby gbelleh » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:22 am

I will go to great lengths to avoid flying these days. I'd rather drive 3,000 miles than be violated, treated like a criminal, and possibly robbed.

A few years ago, I got through security TWICE with 3 folding knives in my carry on (all were around 3 or 3.5" blades). I totally forgot they were in there, and found them when I got home.
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Mr Blonde
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Postby Mr Blonde » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:25 pm

Man I'm really sorry you lost your pen. It's especially disappointing because Spyderco took great care in the development of the Baliyo that it could not be used as a weapon. Try to stab anything with it and the Baliyo will break. I've had second looks once, a security guy at my country's airport showed it to his supervisor to see if I could travel with it. The supervisor gave it one look ("dude that's nothing serious") and waved his subordinate away. I was happy to have the Baliyo on me. Gave me something to do to pass the time when my palmtop ran out of juice.
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rodloos
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Postby rodloos » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:16 pm

The reason the the TSA guy took your pen is because swords are prohibited.

And you know, "The Pen is Mightier Than The Sword!" :D :D :D

My sister recently flew to California from DFW, and after she got there, she realized that she had not one but TWO knives in her purse! A ladybug I had given her, and another similar-sized blade.

I'm not too worried about those full-body scanners though. There is not a single person alive who wants to see my fat old body naked! :)

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Jay_Ev
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Postby Jay_Ev » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:48 pm

It sounds to me like the TSA can confiscate any item they want if they deem it unsafe and a threat to airline security. I'm surprised things like eyeglasses are still allowed on board, after all someone could take the earpiece of a pair of glasses and make it into a dangerous stabbing weapon.
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majornub
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Postby majornub » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:45 pm

I just read that tsa thing and basically you can bring a 6 inch screwdriver but not a 1 inch box cutter? :rolleyes:

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Postby RedRunner » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:38 pm

I would say anything is fair game for the TSA, but if you put up a bit of a fight, stay calm and make a logical argument, they won't take anything that's not truly "threatening". For the most part they don't bother me, although I will say I tend to "profile" the operator when I choose my line. Generally speaking it all comes down to the Xray operator and you want a trained one. He's the guy/gal that moves things through at a decent pace...not the agent who is calling for a search on every package because he/she has never seen a flashlight in a Xray before. I'm using the term Xray, but I have no idea what the current imaging technology is...I don't think it's an Xray, at least not the kind most of us would think of.

Anyway, just try to keep your whit about you and explain what it is that they are concerned about. Keep it real simple. Like, it's just a pen, a novelty pin with plastic covers. Joke about it...say something like, it writes okay, but really it's for my kids, etc.

And if that doesn't work, then ask if you can take it back to your car and go through the machine again. That assumes you have enough time and your car is at the airport (or you can hide it somewhere to retrieve later.)

Honestly the airport security isn't that bad. And it's even a little concerning what can be carried on. I once carried a pen on a flight that had a high voltage transformer and battery inside the body of the pin (a mini stun gun, if you will.) I had received it on my trip and was bringing it back. Nothing was ever said at the airport. I think we all have an idea of what could be taken on to a plane and what could be very damaging to an aluminum tube in flight...so no need to state the obvious for those that we don't want to learn something they shouldn't know. But it is a little concerning when you think about that. I suppose I'm glad that passengers aren't armed. I've seen a few irate passengers throughout the years, an I could only imagine what one of those idiots might do if they have a knife. I'm fine with it. Granted it does twirk me that we cant pack a knife in our checked luggage without it getting it stolen. That is annoying and means that I can't really have a decent knife with me on a trip (especially vacations where I plan to hike, etc.)

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Postby peacefuljeffrey » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:28 am

marlinspike wrote:I don't know if it's still around, but I know there at least used to be a TSA agent who said write in his ebay auctions that his auctions were items he confiscated. I never bothered to confirm it, but based on what he was selling and the prices he was selling at, it made sense.
He should die of eye cancer.
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vampyrewolf
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Postby vampyrewolf » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:32 am

hell, made my trip through security today and all I got was a "nice case" when I tossed my FMP with 3 pens in the basket. 2 stainless pens and a plastic fisher.

they did scan that basket a couple times (keys, chain, watch, money clip, e-reader, FMP, jacket, bluetooth, 2 cellphones) as well as my laptop bag (laptop charger, 2 cell chargers, 3 cell battery packs, 3rd cellphone, 3g wifi modem & cables, more keys, marker, and a book)

But I haven't had anything taken since '02 when they took the can of zippo fuel I had forgotten about in my briefcase (and let me through with a few knives that even went through the scanner).
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peacefuljeffrey
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Postby peacefuljeffrey » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:43 am

RedRunner wrote:But it is a little concerning when you think about that. I suppose I'm glad that passengers aren't armed. I've seen a few irate passengers throughout the years, an I could only imagine what one of those idiots might do if they have a knife. I'm fine with it. Granted it does twirk me that we cant pack a knife in our checked luggage without it getting it stolen. That is annoying and means that I can't really have a decent knife with me on a trip (especially vacations where I plan to hike, etc.)

That same BOGUS rationale could be used to ban an untold number of items from just about any venue that can be imagined. "I could only imagine what one of those idiots might do if they have a [concealed handgun in a supermarket when he gets cut in line at the checkout]," -- so then, what, we must ban all concealed carry?

You might be fine with it, but I'm not. I see it as me being punished for what I haven't done and would never do. I see your nonchalance about it as a selling-out of MY rights -- something that really isn't YOUR right to do.

Last September, I flew commercially and carried with me a pair of ten-inch bamboo knitting needles in my carryon bag. I actually do knit. I had a project I could have shown the TSA buffoons if I had been pressed. But since knitting needles are allowable items, they never even ask. I suppose that anyone could board with them. Now, had I wanted to, I could have brought with me a pair of needles that are ten inches long and about a half inch thick! Those are serious needles and could of course be used as weapons of someone were inclined.

So my point is that it seems absurd to me that you're ok with them banning Delicas and Co-Pilots (the latter of which was actually designed to be so small as to be beyond question an allowable-length knife) when they still let passengers possess stout, pointed knitting needles. The point of what they claim to be doing is demolished.
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