Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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Pelagic
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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Pelagic » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:33 pm

I'd love to try some high quality diamond stones. DMT's work so well for my needs though. I'll probably get better feedback off the stones, and maybe a sharper edge on average. but I'm not sure if it's worth it. What is the cost breakdown generally for resin, metallic, and vitrified diamond or CBN waterstones?
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AwayFromMySpydieHole
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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby AwayFromMySpydieHole » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:34 pm

GarageBoy wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:36 am
FireBug1 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:53 am
The topic required a little research! DMT stones were the first of its kind I do believe. They’ve patented their process of developing their products. Via how its made SCI/DSC network the diamond dust is put on steel plates and are embedded into the steel by scientific process making a permanent bond. Most other diamond stones are produced using special Polymers And binders. Although the others may last for years ultimately will wear out. Thus the added cost of the DMT quality should last a lifetime
DMTs wear out too - they're just better than Smiths diamond products - atoma plates are a bit better. Not sure where ezelap/lansky falls in

The resin and vitrified bond diamonds are a different story, see Shawn/deadboxhero for more info
In my experience the DMT stones don’t really “wear out” in the classic sense of the word. I have some extremely heavily used DMT stones that date back to 2010. They are most certainly not the same as they were new, but they still cut and they leave a great finish.

I simply move the stones up in grit rating as they wear. What used to be my coarse is now my semi-c to medium. My fine hasn’t really worn honestly. It still cuts great it just leaves a nicer finish.


My EF has worn for sure, which is strange. It’s almost like a strop now.

Anyway, if you want to keep using them you can, you just have to modify their place in your regimen.

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Pelagic » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:40 pm

AwayFromMySpydieHole wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:34 pm
GarageBoy wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:36 am
FireBug1 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:53 am
The topic required a little research! DMT stones were the first of its kind I do believe. They’ve patented their process of developing their products. Via how its made SCI/DSC network the diamond dust is put on steel plates and are embedded into the steel by scientific process making a permanent bond. Most other diamond stones are produced using special Polymers And binders. Although the others may last for years ultimately will wear out. Thus the added cost of the DMT quality should last a lifetime
DMTs wear out too - they're just better than Smiths diamond products - atoma plates are a bit better. Not sure where ezelap/lansky falls in

The resin and vitrified bond diamonds are a different story, see Shawn/deadboxhero for more info
In my experience the DMT stones don’t really “wear out” in the classic sense of the word. I have some extremely heavily used DMT stones that date back to 2010. They are most certainly not the same as they were new, but they still cut and they leave a great finish.

I simply move the stones up in grit rating as they wear. What used to be my coarse is now my semi-c to medium. My fine hasn’t really worn honestly. It still cuts great it just leaves a nicer finish.


My EF has worn for sure, which is strange. It’s almost like a strop now.

Anyway, if you want to keep using them you can, you just have to modify their place in your regimen.
My EF wore out the fastest as well. Still works, but nowhere near the same. I think we're onto something here. My fine is great. Both are 5 years old.
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Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
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JD Spydo
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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:58 pm

bearfacedkiller wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:35 am
I have an old worn out Smith’s. I also have a lansky M/F 2x6 diamond bench stone. I would probably go with the Lansky but both are budget stones. The Lansky is my beater stone and it is holding up well enough.
I actually have had a few of Lansky's sharpening tools over the years that I thought were pretty decent for no more than I paid for them. Most definitely better than anything of Smith's. A good friend of mine still brags on Lansky's clamp-on guided system. I've told him about the Spyderco Sharpmaker and he claims he's having great luck with the Lansky unit. So yes I do have some respect for that company and some of their products.

Also the Razor Edge Systems out of Ely, Minnesota has some great sharpening gear as well.

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Vivi » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:09 pm

AwayFromMySpydieHole wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:34 pm
GarageBoy wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:36 am
FireBug1 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:53 am
The topic required a little research! DMT stones were the first of its kind I do believe. They’ve patented their process of developing their products. Via how its made SCI/DSC network the diamond dust is put on steel plates and are embedded into the steel by scientific process making a permanent bond. Most other diamond stones are produced using special Polymers And binders. Although the others may last for years ultimately will wear out. Thus the added cost of the DMT quality should last a lifetime
DMTs wear out too - they're just better than Smiths diamond products - atoma plates are a bit better. Not sure where ezelap/lansky falls in

The resin and vitrified bond diamonds are a different story, see Shawn/deadboxhero for more info
In my experience the DMT stones don’t really “wear out” in the classic sense of the word. I have some extremely heavily used DMT stones that date back to 2010. They are most certainly not the same as they were new, but they still cut and they leave a great finish.

I simply move the stones up in grit rating as they wear. What used to be my coarse is now my semi-c to medium. My fine hasn’t really worn honestly. It still cuts great it just leaves a nicer finish.


My EF has worn for sure, which is strange. It’s almost like a strop now.

Anyway, if you want to keep using them you can, you just have to modify their place in your regimen.
This is my exact experience now, and I believe its one reason I can get clean shaving edges off my XC DMT while before I had to use my fine.

I used both of them terribly wrong when I first got them. I'm a big strong dude and I was one of the fools that though pushing harder = faster grinding. Even after abusing them like that for the first few years, they are still going strong.

I have no doubt DMT's can someday be worn to the point of replacement, but based on my experience with about 8 different products from them, it would take a regular person at least 15-20 years to get there.

I believe the reports I've read that the bonded stones produce finer edges and have better feedback, but I'm very happy with the performance I get from DMT's and I love not having to flatten any of the sharpening tools I use.

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Pelagic » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:24 pm

I put 15 years on a C and 15 on a XC, both still cut when they got misplaced. Given back then I was sharpening Gerber 400's, I know they last a long time.
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Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Bloke » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:47 pm

Vivi wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:09 pm
I'm a big strong dude
Image
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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Baron Mind » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:33 am

Look up UltraSharp diamond plates on Amazon for a little bit less expensive continuous surface stone option

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:33 am

I've got a few diamond sharpening tools including 3 of their Benchstones and I find their quality to be right up there with anyone else's. I'm speaking of the diamond sharpening tools made by "3M" Company. I've owned other diamond tools over the years but I've never owned any better than the ones made by 3M.

I also own 2 diamond benchstones made by Norton. I've had great luck with their diamond sharpening tools as well. But in all of our knife-nut, sharpening circles you never hear of either one of those companies mentioned.

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby DirtMcGirt » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:27 pm

JD Spydo wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:33 am
I've got a few diamond sharpening tools including 3 of their Benchstones and I find their quality to be right up there with anyone else's. I'm speaking of the diamond sharpening tools made by "3M" Company. I've owned other diamond tools over the years but I've never owned any better than the ones made by 3M.

I also own 2 diamond benchstones made by Norton. I've had great luck with their diamond sharpening tools as well. But in all of our knife-nut, sharpening circles you never hear of either one of those companies mentioned.
You’re right. No one talks about Norton too much. My main setup is the IM313 oilstone. It’s a tri-stone system. Coarse and Med Crystolon, and a fine India. I love it. I only wish Norton made a 11.5”x2.5” coarse diamond plate to swap in place of the coarse crystolon. If they do, I can’t find it. DMT offers a full set that will fit though.
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Pelagic
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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Pelagic » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:51 pm

Does Norton make diamond hones?

Or did the subject just get changed?
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

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Vivi
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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Vivi » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:07 pm

speaking of norton, has anyone tried using their triangle rods on a sharpmaker? I was always curious if they worked.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/05139449

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby DirtMcGirt » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:13 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:51 pm
Does Norton make diamond hones?

Or did the subject just get changed?
Dang. Apologies. Yes they do. And I actually just found exactly what I was looking for.

https://www.aaabrasives.com/norton-11-1 ... gJYafD_BwE

But I can get 3 equal size DMT plates dmt for the same price.
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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Bill1170 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:51 pm

It is possible to quickly reprofile knives without spending big bucks on diamond plates. I have and love my DMT plates, plus a 140 Atoma (super nice!) and some no-name plates, but a cheap Norton Crystolon stone cuts fast and costs very little. Crystolon is made from silicon carbide, (SiC) and I use it with soapy water as lubricant and to wash away the swarf.

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Pelagic » Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:30 pm

DirtMcGirt wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:13 pm
Pelagic wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:51 pm
Does Norton make diamond hones?

Or did the subject just get changed?
Dang. Apologies. Yes they do. And I actually just found exactly what I was looking for.

https://www.aaabrasives.com/norton-11-1 ... gJYafD_BwE

But I can get 3 equal size DMT plates dmt for the same price.
Yeah, that is absolutely pricey, wow.

I really wish there was a more concrete general consensus on diamond plates (like how each brand differs from another). Time to start stalking wood working forums, lol.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby GarageBoy » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:06 pm

Does 3m make their own diamond plates? Didn't hear about them until recently

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby dj moonbat » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:51 pm

Pelagic wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:24 pm
I put 15 years on a C and 15 on a XC, both still cut when they got misplaced. Given back then I was sharpening Gerber 400's, I know they last a long time.
Yeah, I’ve had a coarse/fine dual-sided DMT 10” stone since 2002, and haven’t been gentle like I should, and it’s still cutting. If you’re not doing much axe sharpening, diamond plates should go a loooong time.

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby AwayFromMySpydieHole » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:58 pm

Anyone looking at DMT stones should seriously consider the Venev diamond water stones from gritomatic.

I love them. They cut almost as fast as DMT plates but they are much more consistent, with much more feedback. I really prefer them.

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby GarageBoy » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:05 pm

Good price too on the venev vs. dmt

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Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby David R » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:28 pm

Why are so many people recommending diamond plates for Henckels knives? These are probably 1.4116 steel at 57 HRC.

Unless you need diamond stones for some of your Spyderco or or other knives, I'd get a cheap, simple stone. You can get a King combination stone (250 and 1K grit) that will sharpen these knives perfectly well, including cleaning up the edge. Depending on how bad it is it could take a while at 250, but it will get you there. And if you touch them up even every few months you should not ever have to reprofile the edge again. My soft German steel kitchen knives seem to do ok at ~18 degrees. Maybe 17, but that's pushing it. At 20 dps they don't cut well enough to be usable (imo).


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