Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
Sama1394
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:32 am

Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Sama1394 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:44 am

Hello,

I'm looking to re-edge a few of my kitchen knives. They are good quality henckels knives but haven't been cared for in 20+ years. As a result the edges are destroyed, nicked and dull. To try to rectify this I purchased a sharpemaker. I used the brown stones for around 20 min on each knives and was able to get the edge sharp, however its still not a healthy edge.

The medium stones don't take off metal fast enough to re profile the edges, so I'm looking to get a diamond stone as well. I have basically narrowed it down to these two stones.


The smith stone -
http://www.amazon.com/Smiths-DBSC-COARS ... 253&sr=1-5

and the DMT stone -

http://www.amazon.com/DMT-W6CP-Diamond- ... 376&sr=1-4

Both are 325 grit coarse diamond stones. However the DMT is 10 bucks more. Is there any reason to not get the smith? Any help is appreciated.

User avatar
THG
Member
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:55 pm

Postby THG » Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:03 am

Look for the DMT Diasharp series. Those plates have continuous surfaces (not perforated.) Get a DMT XC, and that should have you set for an edge repairing stone.
Im not good at sharpening, even with a sharpmaker. How get your blade good can your blade with an edge pro system? - Bladeforums user

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? - Some Online Meme

User avatar
The Mentaculous
Member
Posts: 879
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:21 am
Location: The boonies, NJ

Postby The Mentaculous » Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:37 am

I admire those who can freehand sharpen--I practice on old crappy kitchen knives sometimes, but I'm not confident enough to risk my prized folders. Plus, I'm probably spoiled by the "idiot proof" sharpmaker :D . I do strop freehand on one I improvised from an old belt. I rub some green chromium oxide stropping compound on it and I'm good to go. Since I started doing that, my final results have really improved drastically.

For daily maintenance when using a knife, I'll stop pretty much every day when I get home (sometime more than once). When my edge has taken a little more wear, I'll touch up on the sharpmaker fine stones at 40 deg. (microbevel). And then when my edge gets beat on or has a big imperfection on it (ie rolled edge) I will do most of the work on the corner of the brown sharpmaker rods (600 grit I believe) and then go down the progression of grits and strop. I don't find myself needing anything coarser usually, but I keep my knives really sharp.

Like I said, most of my edge maintenance I do is stropping (I think I've gotten pretty good). I haven't had to bust out the brown SM stones for a while. My goal when sharpening is to have an edge that can smoothly push-cut through paper without catching at all or feeling rough. I like a polished edge for the cutting I do, and it makes the edge last longer

bada61265
Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:18 pm

Postby bada61265 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:01 am

i got a smith red stone, i think its medium. i have no issue with it. id probubly prefer the dmt though. ive got one of smiths double sided diamonds and it has done a good job for at least 10 years. the smiths course would work fine for what your needing imo. i got my smiths locally. i think it was less then the amazon price at lowes.
my knives:
kershaw Leek Buck 119 Cold Steel Recon tanto
Cold Steel Ti Lite VI ,
Spyderco: Tenacious ,Persistence, Endura 4 blue Stretch zdp blue, Manix 2 ,Native s30v . Sage2 titanium, Gayle Bradly cpm m4, Muleteam mt 10, woodcraft mule s30v. Orange Delica 4
Bark River PSK 154cm, Gunny, Bravo 2, Canadian Special

User avatar
unit
Member
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:47 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Postby unit » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:21 am

While I am a big fan of DMTs, I would quickly point out that if you have a budget to consider why not simply trip to your nearest hardware store and get some wet/dry sandpaper in your grit of choice to wrap your SM rods with? It works FANTASTICALLY for very cheap and you can continue to use the device that you are familiar with.

Wet dry sandpaper is really easy to care for also...use it until if stops performing then toss it and put on another strip.

A second option that will work well is the Diamond rods that are actually made for the Sharpmaker.



The tip I suggest most frequently to people is to be consistent...and using one device start to finish is an easy way to ensure that. I do not always stick with one device of abrasive type, but I do try to keep everything else the same (angle, abrasive position, height, thickness, etc...it really seems to make a difference if you want the finest edges)
Thanks,
Ken (my real name)

...learning something new all the time.

Sama1394
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:32 am

Postby Sama1394 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:31 pm

THG wrote:Look for the DMT Diasharp series. Those plates have continuous surfaces (not perforated.) Get a DMT XC, and that should have you set for an edge repairing stone.
The issue with the diasharp is the cost... $30 is in my price range, $50-60 would cut into my budget too much.

unit wrote:While I am a big fan of DMTs, I would quickly point out that if you have a budget to consider why not simply trip to your nearest hardware store and get some wet/dry sandpaper in your grit of choice to wrap your SM rods with? It works FANTASTICALLY for very cheap and you can continue to use the device that you are familiar with.

Wet dry sandpaper is really easy to care for also...use it until if stops performing then toss it and put on another strip.

A second option that will work well is the Diamond rods that are actually made for the Sharpmaker.



The tip I suggest most frequently to people is to be consistent...and using one device start to finish is an easy way to ensure that. I do not always stick with one device of abrasive type, but I do try to keep everything else the same (angle, abrasive position, height, thickness, etc...it really seems to make a difference if you want the finest edges)
I never even considers this. Wouldn't the sandpaper be too uneven?

User avatar
unit
Member
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:47 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Postby unit » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:41 pm

The sandpaper is as uniform as most other media in that grit size. The paper is a very uniform thickness and since there is no texture imparted by the rods (finer grit than the paper you are using) you end up with a viable setup. I would not get too carried away with grits...600 works plenty fast, I have used 120, but only to remove a lot of metal fast!

Most people will wrap the rods with sand paper and use a clip or rubber band to hold it in place. Be sure to fold the paper so that it conforms well to the profile of the rods.

Some guys will insist that you only stroke edge trailing (i.e. to move the knife *up* the rods in the sharpmaker)...I find that if you are using the appropriate pressure, you can move the edge both up and down the rod and thereby remove material faster.
Thanks,
Ken (my real name)

...learning something new all the time.

Sama1394
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:32 am

Postby Sama1394 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:47 pm

unit wrote:The sandpaper is as uniform as most other media in that grit size. The paper is a very uniform thickness and since there is no texture imparted by the rods (finer grit than the paper you are using) you end up with a viable setup. I would not get too carried away with grits...600 works plenty fast, I have used 120, but only to remove a lot of metal fast!

Most people will wrap the rods with sand paper and use a clip or rubber band to hold it in place. Be sure to fold the paper so that it conforms well to the profile of the rods.

Some guys will insist that you only stroke edge trailing (i.e. to move the knife *up* the rods in the sharpmaker)...I find that if you are using the appropriate pressure, you can move the edge both up and down the rod and thereby remove material faster.
Ill have to give it a try then. I just don't want to blow a costly set of knives. If I wasn't going to sharpen them then I was going to have them professionally reprofiled. Worst comes to worst ill be out of $10 more for the sand paper and ill still get them done professionally.

There isnt even that much work to be done, just a bad nick in the blade that I want to get rid of.

Thanks for the help!

User avatar
unit
Member
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:47 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Postby unit » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:56 pm

Sama1394 wrote:Ill have to give it a try then. I just don't want to blow a costly set of knives. If I wasn't going to sharpen them then I was going to have them professionally reprofiled. Worst comes to worst ill be out of $10 more for the sand paper and ill still get them done professionally.

There isnt even that much work to be done, just a bad nick in the blade that I want to get rid of.

Thanks for the help!
No problem.

As long as you are profiling at the correct angle for the knife, you should not be ruining anything. Even then, it is unlikely you could ruin them. I suggest starting with 600...take a couple strokes and look at the edge with magnification to see what you are doing.

Depending on the knives you have, you might find that they really are not as hard as you think...and the material will come off fast. Just watch what you are doing, and check frequently.
Thanks,
Ken (my real name)

...learning something new all the time.

Sama1394
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:32 am

Postby Sama1394 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:16 pm

unit wrote:No problem.

As long as you are profiling at the correct angle for the knife, you should not be ruining anything. Even then, it is unlikely you could ruin them. I suggest starting with 600...take a couple strokes and look at the edge with magnification to see what you are doing.

Depending on the knives you have, you might find that they really are not as hard as you think...and the material will come off fast. Just watch what you are doing, and check frequently.

I haven't been able to fine a definitive answer for the angle that the blades were shipped at. Henckels could only say what they suggest I use - 40°. However, since I'm going to re profile the larger knifes, It would be fine to change the angle of one right?

I have a 8",6" and 4" chef knife. I wanted to set the 4" at 30° and the two larger ones at 40°. I don't plan to chop with the small one, only peel and such. And then use the other two for chopping.

User avatar
unit
Member
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:47 am
Location: Missouri, USA

Postby unit » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:28 pm

Sama1394 wrote:I haven't been able to fine a definitive answer for the angle that the blades were shipped at. Henckels could only say what they suggest I use - 40°. However, since I'm going to re profile the larger knifes, It would be fine to change the angle of one right?

I have a 8",6" and 4" chef knife. I wanted to set the 4" at 30° and the two larger ones at 40°. I don't plan to chop with the small one, only peel and such. And then use the other two for chopping.
I do not want to break your heart (and I use the same brand knives in my kitchen) but in spite of the price and public perception, the steel they use is not nearly as hard, or wear resistant as most Spyderco EDC knives.

I took some Henckles pretty thin and polished them up to insane polish...they lasted through prep of one meal. I find that a 40 inclusive is about as thin as I want to bother with on these knives (I like them BTW, but MOST people think they are some mystical German Vundar Schteel...but really they are what most knife nuts would not even consider for EDC).

What they do have going for them as they are pretty thin behind the edge and will cut pretty well even at a 40. You can go 30 with the small one, but my 4" knives are even thinner behind the edge than the bigger Chefs knives...so there is not much benefit to it....and my wife rolls then less at 4;)

You are not going to hurt those knives...and worst case you will give up and have a pro bail you out.

I would not go any rougher than 600 grit and use very low pressure. Most of the time on Henckles I just use the brown rods on the points and grind away. Be sure to rotate the rods every 30-40 strokes because that steel will clog them up quickly...wash the stones after the third rotation. Depending on the damage you are repairing, you might be surprised at how fast the brown points will cut (if you keep them clean).

Sandpaper will be faster...your call.
Thanks,
Ken (my real name)

...learning something new all the time.

FireBug1
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:34 am

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby FireBug1 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:53 am

The topic required a little research! DMT stones were the first of its kind I do believe. They’ve patented their process of developing their products. Via how its made SCI/DSC network the diamond dust is put on steel plates and are embedded into the steel by scientific process making a permanent bond. Most other diamond stones are produced using special Polymers And binders. Although the others may last for years ultimately will wear out. Thus the added cost of the DMT quality should last a lifetime

JD Spydo
Member
Posts: 17242
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 7:53 pm
Location: Blue Springs, Missouri

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:23 am

I haven't purchased any of Smith's sharpening tools probably since the late 90s. I wasn't impressed with any of their products then at all. Now I've been recently told that
their quality has improved somewhat. But I've never owned or used anything put out by Smith's that I've been impressed with. DMT on the other hand is not bad. The few DMT tools I own aren't bad for what they are intended for.

But as good as Spyderco, 3M, Norton and a few other sharpening tools I own I see no need or desire to give them a second chance. I had two of their Arkansas ( novaculite) stones and they were not high quality from what I could tell. I've owned and used many Arkansas Stones over the years but the ones that I had owned sold by Smith's were not good at all from what I could tell. You see those Smith's sharpening tools at most of the Rip-Mart stores and that's a good place for them as far as I'm concerned.

User avatar
Pelagic
Member
Posts: 2438
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:49 pm
Location: East Coast/Nomadic

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Pelagic » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:48 am

Smith's cut decently at first, then wear out. DMT cuts better and lasts 10x longer.
Pancake wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:20 pm
Are you a magician? :eek:
Nate wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:32 pm
You're the lone wolf of truth howling into the winds of ignorance
Doeswhateveraspidercan wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:17 pm
You are a nobody got it?

TkoK83Spy
Member
Posts: 2712
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:32 pm
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby TkoK83Spy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:57 am

I was at Walmart last night buying some windshield washer fluid/deicer since my lines are frozen in my truck...the sporting goods section is right next to the auto section so naturally I browsed the knives. They had a double sided Smith stone that was 140 grit and I believe 240 grit on the other side? Was only $8, I was tempted to get it but decided not to. Seems like a good deal to get started with reprofiling.
Currently have 18 :spyder: 's in 14 different steels.

-Rick

User avatar
Vivi
Member
Posts: 6458
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:15 am

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Vivi » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:32 am

I have no experience with Smith's, but I have 10-20 year old DMT stones I use every week. They still work great for both reprofiling and setting the edge.

If you go the sandpaper route, don't use edge leading strokes. Even if you use light pressure you'll slice through it once you get to the apex.

I'd also recommend clamping the sandpaper to a thick hardcover book on a work bench. Thise gives you a longer, wider surface to back your sandpaper with vs a sharpmaker rod.

If you are going to try the sharpmaker again, stick to the flats. Wider surface area = wider point of contact on the blade, which means faster grinding. Corners are best for serrated knives and recurved blades.

If the chips are shallow low grit sandpaper will work quickly. If you want to do this once and be done, then maintain with the sharpmaker, sandpaper would be cheaper. If you think you'll need to do this again down the road, investing in a proper diamond benchstone like a DMT could save money long term VS throwing out a few dollars everytime the sandpaper gets clogged with steel.

User avatar
Deadboxhero
Member
Posts: 1115
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:35 am

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby Deadboxhero » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:27 am

FireBug1 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:53 am
The topic required a little research! DMT stones were the first of its kind I do believe. They’ve patented their process of developing their products. Via how its made SCI/DSC network the diamond dust is put on steel plates and are embedded into the steel by scientific process making a permanent bond. Most other diamond stones are produced using special Polymers And binders. Although the others may last for years ultimately will wear out. Thus the added cost of the DMT quality should last a lifetime
It's on a film, the film is adhered to the plate.
Big Brown Bear
[url]https://www.youtube.com/user/shawnhouston[/ur]
Triple B Handmade Knives

User avatar
bearfacedkiller
Member
Posts: 9020
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:22 pm
Location: hiding in the woods...

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby bearfacedkiller » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:35 am

I have an old worn out Smith’s. I also have a lansky M/F 2x6 diamond bench stone. I would probably go with the Lansky but both are budget stones. The Lansky is my beater stone and it is holding up well enough.
Last edited by bearfacedkiller on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
-Darby
sal wrote:Knife afi's are pretty far out, steel junky's more so, but "edge junky's" are just nuts. :p
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: Also, do you think a kangaroo would eat a bowl of spagetti with sauce if someone offered it to them?

GarageBoy
Member
Posts: 1148
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:49 pm
Location: Brooklyn NY

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby GarageBoy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:36 am

FireBug1 wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:53 am
The topic required a little research! DMT stones were the first of its kind I do believe. They’ve patented their process of developing their products. Via how its made SCI/DSC network the diamond dust is put on steel plates and are embedded into the steel by scientific process making a permanent bond. Most other diamond stones are produced using special Polymers And binders. Although the others may last for years ultimately will wear out. Thus the added cost of the DMT quality should last a lifetime
DMTs wear out too - they're just better than Smiths diamond products - atoma plates are a bit better. Not sure where ezelap/lansky falls in

The resin and vitrified bond diamonds are a different story, see Shawn/deadboxhero for more info

AwayFromMySpydieHole
Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:20 pm

Re: Smith stones vs DMT stones.

Postby AwayFromMySpydieHole » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:29 pm

I just got some Venev diamond water stones and they are great. My previous go to was DMT diasharp continuous surface. Definitely switching over to the Venev stones now. They are much better IMO.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Jasmar0331 and 28 guests