Delica FFG vs Saber Grind

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cckw
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Postby cckw » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:26 pm

It is almost like asking which looks better the blue one or the purple one. each person has a preference, but you may not share their preference. I have a preference on the blade type but either is perfectly fine. I can think up scenarios where one is better then a the next one the other way around. So decide based on availability, color, or whatever and don't worry about the grind

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telemeister
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Postby telemeister » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:08 pm

Hey there,

Haven't been around in a while but had to chime in. I would go (and have gone) for the FFG. Much sharper and a much better slicer.

I have sabre grind and flat rind Delicas and have never been able to get my sabre grind anywhere near as sharp as I get the FFG. In fact, I eventually sent it back to Spyderco who sharpened it for me and I am still not happy with the results (I just accept this as being the best the grind can do) and simply just don't use it.

The FFG on the other hand, is absolutely fantastic - and now one of my preferred EDCs.
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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:12 am

telemeister wrote:Hey there,

Haven't been around in a while but had to chime in. I would go (and have gone) for the FFG. Much sharper and a much better slicer.

I have sabre grind and flat rind Delicas and have never been able to get my sabre grind anywhere near as sharp as I get the FFG. In fact, I eventually sent it back to Spyderco who sharpened it for me and I am still not happy with the results (I just accept this as being the best the grind can do) and simply just don't use it.

The FFG on the other hand, is absolutely fantastic - and now one of my preferred EDCs.

I think that "sharpness" refers to the thinness of the edge itself. If I'm correct, then a saber grind can be just as sharp as a full flat grind. You may get better slicing performance from an FFG, especially in media that is thicker than the knife blade is wide, but to say that a saber grind cannot be as sharp as a full flat ground, is IMHO, a wrong perception.

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Postby .357 mag » Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:25 am

chuck_roxas45 wrote:I think that "sharpness" refers to the thinness of the edge itself. If I'm correct, then a saber grind can be just as sharp as a full flat grind. You may get better slicing performance from an FFG, especially in media that is thicker than the knife blade is wide, but to say that a saber grind cannot be as sharp as a full flat ground, is IMHO, a wrong perception.
I agree. All saber ground blades are as sharp as my FFG knives. I ready don't see much of a difference in cutting power for me because I rarely cut stuff that goes past the edge.

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telemeister
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Postby telemeister » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:03 am

chuck_roxas45 wrote:I think that "sharpness" refers to the thinness of the edge itself. If I'm correct, then a saber grind can be just as sharp as a full flat grind. You may get better slicing performance from an FFG, especially in media that is thicker than the knife blade is wide, but to say that a saber grind cannot be as sharp as a full flat ground, is IMHO, a wrong perception.
Rightio then.....thanks for that. To clarify my original comment, I cannot get the sabre grind to a point where it cuts as cleanly (and sometimes not at all) as an FFG.

My experience is that the sabre grind doesn't perform as well as the full flat grind. Just my experience though - I carry the FFG and not my sabre (for plain edge delicas). Spyderedge, on the other hand, I have no problems with :)
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Evil D
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Postby Evil D » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:08 am

chuck_roxas45 wrote:I think that "sharpness" refers to the thinness of the edge itself. If I'm correct, then a saber grind can be just as sharp as a full flat grind. You may get better slicing performance from an FFG, especially in media that is thicker than the knife blade is wide, but to say that a saber grind cannot be as sharp as a full flat ground, is IMHO, a wrong perception.
This is why i did my back bevel so low. It doesn't equal the playing field but it sure does help.

The Delica/Endura benefit from having a thin blade. I can tell you without a doubt that when cutting through corrugated my Delica goes through with less resistance than my Para does...the Para might be FFG but the blade is nearly twice as thick at the spine. Of course, making that thin blade FFG makes even less resistance. Like the saying goes..."all good, just different".
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:34 am

Evil D wrote:This is why i did my back bevel so low. It doesn't equal the playing field but it sure does help.

The Delica/Endura benefit from having a thin blade. I can tell you without a doubt that when cutting through corrugated my Delica goes through with less resistance than my Para does...the Para might be FFG but the blade is nearly twice as thick at the spine. Of course, making that thin blade FFG makes even less resistance. Like the saying goes..."all good, just different".
Yes, thinner blades will perform better than thicker blades when cutting media thicker than the blade is wide. However, you are talking about cutting performance. I make a distinction between cutting performance, which I perceive as cutting force(less force applied=better performance) applied on the handle. Sharpness, I see as merely a physical dimension of the very edge. So the dimension(thinness) of the very edge can be the same on two knives with different blade thickness. I would say that these two knives are equally sharp. Cutting performance, OTOH, will be different between the two knives on thicker media like corrugated cardboard because of thickness of blade stock or different grinds.

When you notice the difference between the cutting performance of your para and delica on corrugated cardboard, the telling difference there would probably be the thinness behind the edge. Blade stock on delica being 2.5mm and on the para being 4mm.

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:41 pm

A thin edge is still very thick in one direction: vertical. :p

Thick spines and obtuse grinds are more forgiving for lateral torquing and material inconsistencies. You can twist or hit a paperclip with less severe results on a saber-ground blade.

Like anything a tip is the most fragile point on a blade. If you need put it through severe abuse it's better to spread that work along the belly of the blade because it has more reinforcement.

People have reground Spyderco's to silly angles and carry them daily. They even cut hard materials like cardboard and giggle like school children. The difference is they are VERY aware what their hand is doing and what part of the blade is being torqued (and how).

An obtuse grind will take more effort to cut the same material. Likewise you can cut up a pizza box with a wood chisel. Who would want to though?
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JNewell
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Postby JNewell » Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:12 pm

telemeister wrote:Rightio then.....thanks for that. To clarify my original comment, I cannot get the sabre grind to a point where it cuts as cleanly (and sometimes not at all) as an FFG.

My experience is that the sabre grind doesn't perform as well as the full flat grind. Just my experience though - I carry the FFG and not my sabre (for plain edge delicas). Spyderedge, on the other hand, I have no problems with :)
Historically, one of the major reasons for the move from the D3's hollow grind to the D4's saber grind was the number of complaints about broken tips. Spyerco listens...and we got a really robust blade in the D4. It does not, however, slice as well as a FFG, and cutlery fashion has taken us into a period of FFGs. The trade-off is that it is a lot easier to snap the tip, once again.

For backpacking or rough-ish use, I still prefer the saber grind. For fine slicing, the FFG is better than the saber grind. There is no perfect do-it-all blade and no perfect do-it-all knife... :) :( ;)

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Postby dbcad » Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:16 am

I enjoy both grinds, FFG and saber. I am gifting my ZDP SE Delica to my son in law who is a Paramedic with the fire department. I believe it will serve him well if he doesn't pry anything with it.

A great thing about Spyderco knives is that there are so many flavors to choose from :)
Charlie

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marknett
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Postby marknett » Tue Dec 21, 2010 10:01 am

Well , all i have are saber grinds ,so now I got to buy a ffg just so I can compare .. :mad: Thanks alot guys !!! ;) Merry Christmas everyone
"When Life feeds you Lemons , Pucker up and Quit Whining"

Mark
"Black" Delica 4 vg-10 (SG)
"S.S." Byrd Meadowlark 8Cr13MoV (SG)
"S.S." Grasshopper CR13 (FFG)
"Blue" Stretch 2 ZDP-189 (FFG)


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